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| The following summary minutes have not been approved by Simpsonville City Council. An official copy of the minutes will be available after adopted by City Council at City Hall 118 NE Main St. Simpsonville. Pursuant to the Freedom of Information Act, notice of this meeting date, time, place and Agenda was posted on the bulletin board at City Hall and faxed to the newspapers, radio stations, television stations and any concerned citizens. |
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SIMPSONVILLE CITY COUNCIL MINUTES WORKSHOP SESSION February 26, 2008 6:30 P.M.
CALL TO ORDER: Mayor: Call the February meeting – the February Workshop Session of Simpsonville City Council to order. Ms. Bodkins would you call the roll please.
ROLL CALL: Ms. Bodkins: Yes sir: Councilmember Bridges: Here Councilmember Garrett: Here Councilmember Sanders: Here Councilmember Bagwell: Here Councilmember Curtis: Here Councilmember Larson: Here Mayor Waldrop: Here Thank you Ms. Bodkins
Ms. Bodkins: Yes sir.
Mayor: I’d like to welcome all of you here tonight.
INVOCATION Mayor: Is there anyone here who would like to ask blessings upon this meeting in your own personal way. All right, Council Member Bridges would you ask blessings upon this meeting in your own personal way.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
CITIZEN COMMENTS Mayor: All right. This is the portion of the program where we take citizen comments and I see no one is on the Agenda. So did anyone sign up.
Ms. Bodkins: No sir.
Mayor: Wow – none of you people have anything to say to us. All right. Well we’ll move right into Council Comments.
COUNCIL COMMENTS Mayor: I’m sure the Council Members have something they’d like to say at this meeting. Who’d like to go first. Wow what a meeting.
Ms. Sanders: I’ll go first
Mayor: Okay well you’ve got to raise your hand – the way it works is you raise your hand – all right – Ms. Sanders
Ms. Sanders: I would like to thank the Chamber of Commerce for having the retreat this past weekend. I hope they gleaned some good information. We had about 5 people from the City attend representing the City with the Chamber and I appreciate it and look forward to working with them.
Mayor: Very good. Thank you. Anyone else like to report on that meeting or anything.
Mr. Larson: I don’t think we should.
Mayor: Thanks to the Chamber for having that and for inviting the City.
PRESENTATION OF PLAQUES BY MAYOR WALDROP Mayor: The next item on the Agenda is – I see we don’t have our former council members here tonight but we’ve got – would be Mr. Hawes
Mr. Hawes: Mayor somewhere along in the Agenda I’d like to introduce our new General Manager at the Amphitheater at Heritage Park . It’s not on the Agenda. We weren’t sure if she’d be able to be in here tonight but if you would like I can do that now. I know we don’t have an Administrator’s Comment Section on this Agenda.
Mayor: You’re right about that. We did that for a reason. No, I’m sorry. I noticed that was missing but I thought you had chosen to remain silent until it was your turn in the spot light.
Mr. Hawes: Well I was going to do it when Council Comments came up but Council didn’t have any comments so –
Mayor: Okay – well why don’t you go ahead and make a few comments at this time and then I’ll get started over again – Mr. Hawes
Mr. Hawes: Very good. I would like to introduce our new General Manager at the Amphitheater assigned by SMG, the company that the City has procured to operate and manage the amphitheater. Her name is Cindy Ogletree and she brings with her a wealth of experience from Charlotte and Atlanta managing large, major league venues there. The Verizonwireless Amphitheater in Charlotte and Chastain Park Amphitheater in Atlanta . So I’d just like to ask that Cindy stand up – this is Cindy Ogletree. We’ve got an office for her over at Heritage Park right now and she’s just settling in.
Mayor: Fantastic. Well let’s give her a hand. Welcome to Simpsonville and we look forward to having you do great things for us.
Ms. Ogletree: I look forward to doing great things here.
Mayor: All right anything else Mr. Hawes
Mr. Hawes: No that’s all I had sir.
Mayor: Now – as I was about to say we don’t have our former council members here with us tonight but we have plaques for them – Ms. Geneva Lawrence from Ward III and Mr. Mike Zitricki from Ward V. And I’d just like to thank them for their service for the time that they served on council and we’ll make sure that we get these plaques to them. And I’m sure they’ll proudly display them on their walls and remember us fondly as we remember them.
PRESENTATION OF PLAQUES BY CHIEF REECE Mayor: Next – Chief Reece our Police Chief Charles Reece. I think you have some presentations that you’d like to make at this time. I’ll reserve my comments.
Chief Reece: Thank you Mr. Mayor. I stand here tonight – it’s the second time I’ve done this since the first of the year and it’s certainly with a hard heart that I stand here tonight and I hope I can do these two fellows justice. I’d like to recognize Lt. Ed Turner, Ed if you’d come up and Captain Ken Abercrombie. You all know why he’s smiling. I have worked with both of these guys standing here shoulder to shoulder in this City for 18 years. We’ve worked the third shift together and we’ve been in fights together and good times and bad times. And it’s with a hard heart that I see them retiring tonight. But we wanted to honor them. You just don’t run across folks like these two every day. Ed and I worked together before Simpsonville – Ed and I have been in a lot more conflicts in another situation than in Simpsonville. Ed and I have been together probably 22-23 years. And it’s just hard on me tonight to see them go. But I want to recognize them and thank them for their service to this City for 18 years – all three of us have worked here and worked together. Ken of course has been my second in command and has done an outstanding job. Ken is one of those guys who – he don’t want you to give him a lot of praise but he does a lot behind the scenes. I can’t never tell him how much I appreciate him and how much I love him and respect him. And the same thing goes with Ed – it’s just anything I ask him to do I don’t even have to question it and wonder if it was done because I know it was. But I’d like to present them with a plaque tonight. This is Ken’s – turn around so they can see it. And Lt. Turners. I’d like for all of us to stand up and give them not a round of applause but a standing ovation for 18 years of service.
We’re going to force Captain Abercrombie to do something he has very rarely done. We’re going to make him come to this microphone. I got two more days to supervise you – come right here.
Mayor: I can’t wait to hear this.
Captain Abercrombie: I’m going to defer everything to Lt. Turner. No I’ve enjoyed the last 18 years and this guy here is the best in the world and I appreciate it. I appreciate all you all do for us. Thank you.
Chief: The floors yours
Lt. Turner: I’d just like to say I’ve enjoyed working here. I’ve been here through the good times and the bad times and we’ve had some bad times and we’ve had some good times. The three of us fight amongst each other all the time. But that’s the way we get the work cranked out. But I’ve enjoyed it but I’m ready to retire and do a few other things. Thank you.
Chief: Okay so the three musketeers are down to one muskie so –
Mayor: Well before you sit down – excuse me – I just want to speak on behalf of all the citizens of Simpsonville as I often do and I guess that’s part of what I’m elected to do here but I want to thank you both for your long years of service. And I’ve been around you for a lot of years to and I can tell you from a personal standpoint I’ve never been in a fist fight with you before but we’ve all been through some things together. We’ve been through several Chiefs and we’ve been through a lot of changes in the Police Department and a lot of changes in the City. We’ve been through some times that tested all our metal and I got to tell you you two guys have just been some of the rocks that we have over there in the Police Department and we appreciate everything you’ve done. I’ve enjoyed working with you. I’ve enjoyed joking with you. I’ve enjoyed riding motorcycles with you and Mr. Turner even shared his wife with us for several years. And this is not your night but we enjoyed the time she was with us to and we appreciate you having enough confidence in the City to allow your spouse to come and work with us for awhile. Fellows I hope you’ll always feel like your part of the Simpsonville Family. We’ll certainly always feel like you’ve been a part of our family. We’ll never forget you. I want to stay in touch with you. I want to – well if you can ever get your foot fixed I want to ride motorcycles with you again – and tell some jokes and war stories with you.
Capt. Abercrombie: I don’t know if I’ll ever ride a motorcycle again but I’ll follow you in a car.
Mayor: Well that may work I don’t know but seriously and getting away from the personal side of it I know that if all the people of Simpsonville knew everything that you guys had done they’d all be here tonight but I’m sure they all appreciate what you’ve done for us and we appreciate you and always feel like your Simpsonvillians even though you live in Clinton and somewhere up in the boonies in the mountains I don’t know. But I hope you’ll always feel like your part of our City. Thank you.
Chief: Mr. Mayor just so I can invite council Friday afternoon from 2-4 I’m going to have a drop in for them down at the Police Department. I told you both of these guys have never been one to stand up and ask for a lot of recognition and I told Ken because Ken has been to Chief’s meetings with me and every executive law enforcement meeting in this state with me and he said promise me please do not have a big deal. So I made him that promise but I wanted to invite you as well as all of the employees from the City to a drop in for Ed and Ken both on Friday from 2-4 at the Police Department. Thank you Ken.
Now just to fill you in. If you’re sitting there wondering okay what are we doing now. We have looked and I have been working with Ken and with Ed for the last several years how we knew that this day was coming and how we would restructure the Police Department. I’m not going to ask these two to come up but I am going to introduce them to you and most of you I’m sure know them. Lt. Bobo would you stand. Lt. Bobo will now assume – most of you all know Ralph’s been an investigator here with us for how many years Ralph
Lt. Bobo: 10
Chief: 10 years. We’re going to move Ralph to Ed’s position so Ralph will be the patrol commander – he will be over all of control as well as investigations and we’re going to move another Sgt into investigations to physically do the investigative work. Lt. O’Neil would you please stand. I don’t think that this will come as a shock to anybody. Colleen has always been my right hand when it comes to executive matters. Ken and I have been kind of grooming Colleen if you want to say that for several years to one day step into the point – I wanted you to know that I have made her or appointed her the Assistant Chief and she’ll take Abercrombie’s position and I have no doubt that she will perform at the same level Ken did and even higher. So I’d like to congratulate both of them tonight on their new appointments. And maybe we will be like every other Police Department – maybe we’ll find some qualified candidates to come in and fill some road positions but if I only knew where they were coming from I’d feel a lot better myself. But from my prospective I want you all to know it’s been a pleasure for me to work here for the last 18 years – I’ve seen a lot of changes in the City with Ken and Ed and it just means a lot to us to know how you all stand behind us to and I want to thank you all.
Mayor: Thank you. Well the two appointments tonight are really special because I’ve bought sausage from one and cookies from the other – I’m into food people so that’s a great thing – congratulations. Mr. Hawes have you got anything else before we move on.
Mr. Hawes: Just the Agenda items sir.
Mayor: All right. Well then we’ll go to the next Agenda item and that will be New Business.
NEW BUSINESS: a. Request for Beer and Wine Sales at Amphitheater Mayor: And Mr. Hawes your going to talk to us again about Beer and Wine Sales down at the amphitheater. I can hardly wait to hear this.
Mr. Hawes: Yes sir Mayor and Council. SMG, the firm that we’ve hired to put on concerts at the amphitheater has requested permission to serve beer and/or wine at certain paid concerts within the fenced confines of the amphitheater. I know council has discussed permitting beer and wine events in the past. SMG has advised us that if we want to get the highest quality touring entertainers beer and wine are expected at any venue. I know there has been some concern from this Board but in Greenville County alone for all kinds of family events – at the Bi-Lo Center, West End Field, the Peace Center, Carolina First Center, Downtown Greenville and Downtown Greer – beer and wine are available for those who choose to consume them. SMG has experience overseeing the controlled sale of beer and wine in over 240 venues in the United States , including the Carolina First Center right here in Greenville County and the North Charleston Coliseum. They’ve demonstrated that the sale of these beverages is well managed at all of their venues. We have discussed with the Chief of Police proposed sales procedures and he’s indicated that he is satisfied with SMG’s management of beverage sales. I’d like to have Cindy Ogletree our new General Manager of the Amphitheater, if she could, to please speak to SMG request at this time. So Cindy –
Mayor: You’re going to break her in real good on her first night aren’t you.
Ms. Ogletree: Well I don’t have anything prepared but Russ just asked me to speak to you all today just to let you know for a perspective of what my experience has been in the past but you really – you know beer and wine are expected at major amphitheaters. And from everything that I’ve heard from Russ and from Mayor Waldrop is you guys really want this amphitheater to succeed and to be on the same playing field as the other major amphitheaters that are out there in the market as well as what they have in Greenville at the Bi-Lo Center and in order for that to happen you really do need to allow beer and wine sales at the amphitheater during events. Some events actually wouldn’t have them specifically in my past history we’ve done Christian events – and I believe you all did a Contemporary Christian festival at the building last year possibly. We don’t do beer and wine sales at those events. If we’re asked to not do them – that’s not an issue – that’s not a problem – that’s at the request of the artist and so those types of things we can be flexible about. And that’s not a problem. But to have them available at most of the events is definitely you know a good business practice to have there in order to be a successful venue and with control – which there are very well established policies and procedures – as long as you have great training – you have the support of this wonderful Police Department that you have here – it’s easy to keep a handle on things – with your servers – and all of them go through training – it’s it can be a good situation where it will work out best you know for everyone’s enjoyment. Does anybody have any questions.
Mayor: Oh I’m sure we do. I’ll start off though giving you a little history. And I’m sure Russ has talked to you about this but the reason for the park – two reasons – one was to provide a bigger and better place for all of our youth sports leagues to participate in sports and we wanted to have a facility that brought families together and provide an opportunity for families to spend time together and while the children were participating in those sports perhaps the parents could be participating or the whole family together in picnicking and other things. But secondly it was to bring people to Simpsonville. Because we realized that we don’t have an ocean front – we don’t have a river – we don’t have a lake – we don’t have some of these other attractive features that some of the other towns have been successful with that they have. So we promised our merchants if you’ll collect this little miniscule tax for us we will do everything we can to attract people to Simpsonville. Now I tell you that for a reason. Because we’ve pretty well satisfied because of the good work of Robbie Davis and some of his folks over there the part about bringing families together. So do you believe that we would not be able to bring large numbers of people to large concerts for several days to concerts in that amphitheater if we just don’t make those adult beverages available.
Ms. Ogletree: No you’re going to have a very difficult time. First of all you won’t sell tickets – people now-a-days if they’re going to a live performance – a live concert it’s expected that you’re going to have beer and wine sales. Maybe since we’re a new building they may not realize that at first but I guarantee you as soon as they get through the door and they find out they can’t buy beer and wine they will be less likely to buy a ticket in the future. They just expect to have that type of service when they’re going to a concert like that – it’s just part of the over-all enjoyment of the experience of the music and it will definitely keep you from getting some of the bigger tours. Some of the bigger acts that go out on the market. The whole reason that they’re coming to your building and what your selling them on is the fact that you can sell tickets. If you can’t sell tickets then they’re not going to want to play your building. They’ll either pass the market entirely or they’ll go into the Bi-Lo Center or go somewhere else where they feel like they can you know make more money or be able to sell out the event. So it’s definitely an important piece.
Mayor: I think many of our residents believe that if we start that and make that a regular practice that we’re going to be inviting rowdy crowds of people who are going to bring all sorts of disgrace and damage to our community. What’s been your experience. I know you were at Chapman Park in Atlanta which is a major amphitheater.
Ms. Ogletree: Chastain Park
Mayor: Chastain Park – I’m sorry – and you’ve been at some other major
Ms. Ogletree: Yeah – Verizonwireless Amphitheater in Charlotte , yeah it’s
Mayor: What’s been your experience with that and is that – give the fact that we have a wonderful Police force – excuse me go ahead.
Ms. Ogletree: Well the most – you know in any situation as any restaurant owner will tell you or any bar owner will tell you – you’ll have a few situations where you’ll have one person who may cause some problems – it’s definitely your issue of control. You know how you serve someone and how much you serve someone is in your control. Therefore, your servers – anyone who’s actually doing any serving at the venue has to go through proper training or they’re not allowed to work. They cannot serve if they haven’t been certified through a program. I know in NC they had TIPS – I’m not sure what SC might have as far as a pouring certification program. But there is a formal training program that those people would go through. And it just teaches them to you know look for someone who’s obviously had too much and to refuse service. And then of course if they have a situation where this person is refused service and they get a little upset about that then you have the support of your wonderful Police Department that can step in and quickly control the situation. Because they’re obviously more experienced in handling that sort of thing than the servers would be. They can say no but then they kind of have to turn the situation over. But we’ve really – you know you’re going to have some situations on occasion but it’s very infrequent. Most of the time people they have behave themselves. They are not going to go and just you know get totally trashed because they spent money to watch a show which they’re going to want to get their money’s worth out of by watching that performance.
Mayor: Is that TIPS program or something like that – is that something that we could expect from you as a part of your duties down there to implement. I mean if we don’t have one in SC and I’m not aware of one – I don’t think we do
Ms. Ogletree: I would think you do –
Mayor: Would it be reasonable to expect you and your company to have for instance a mini seminar or something for the handlers and things like that
Ms. Ogletree: Oh yeah – absolutely. If the state’s Alcohol and Beverage Control – if they don’t have something – which I feel quite sure that they do – but I have not had a chance to really research that yet. But – in my two days – it’s on my list
Mayor: We want to make you understand this is a hard job you’ve stepped into.
Ms. Ogletree: But even if they didn’t we could certainly bring in individuals who have performed TIPS trainings in NC in the state of NC who could come in and do something very similar here. We definitely have that at our finger tips to bring that in and make that happen. And that will be very important. We absolutely will not allow anyone to serve unless they’ve been through that program. They have to go through a training program before they’re allowed to serve.
Mayor: Thank you. Well you stay right there because I’m betting that there will be some other questions from these people up here. Anyone else have questions or – Bruce
Mr. Larson: I was going to ask Mr. Hawes – and I don’t know if this would be a fair comparison but compared to the attendance at the concerts during Freedom Weekend Aloft vs the Christian Concert that we had at the park – where there was not alcohol served. Is there anyway you can make a comparison of the difference in the number of people that bought tickets.
Mr. Hawes: I don’t know that there’s necessarily a nexus between those two events and the alcohol being a primary factor to the attendance or not to the attendance. Really Freedom Weekend Aloft had a lot of advertising the Christian event did not have. They’re playing to a different crowd entirely. It would be very difficult to draw that connection specific to alcohol sales at one versus alcohol sales at another. So I couldn’t rationally say that no.
Mr. Larson: I wouldn’t think there would be a big play on that part.
Mr. Hawes: What I can say is that in discussions that I’ve had with promoters and perhaps Cindy could elaborate on this – the major touring acts that we’re looking at and we’ve made an investment in the amphitheater to accommodate a number of them would – if they found out there was no alcohol available for their show – basically would go to the Bi-Lo Center which does serve alcohol and serves the same market – they would consider that rather than play a show where primary revenue source or whatever that they would have would not be there.
Mr. Larson: Going back to what the Mayor says as far as the park – the ball field area was doing for the baseball tournaments and the family oriented type activities. You’re talking about the alcohol would only be inside the fenced amphitheater
Mr. Hawes: As proposed here yes that would be entirely within the fenced confines of the amphitheater. Also the beer and wine sales do not necessarily make an event a non-family event. I mean if it is at a concert or say the symphony that can certainly be a family event – it just allows an option for an adult who’s of age and of sound mind to determine if he’d like to imbibe at that time to have that option.
Mr. Larson: Okay thanks.
Mayor: Okay anyone else. Ms. Sanders
Ms. Sanders: I have another question. You mentioned servers and seminars. Are these servers vendors, employees, city employees – I mean who are we talking about here.
Ms. Ogletree: More than likely it would be a third party – possibly it might be SMG employees. That’s to be determined but yeah one of those – it wouldn’t be city employees. But if you’d like to come to training we’d love to have you.
Mayor: Okay anyone else. Mr. Garrett
Mr. Garrett: I noticed in the arm band there would be arm bands for each – different colors
Ms. Ogletree – You’re talking about wrist bands –
Mr. Hawes: I can speak to that because I supplied council with a proposed policy that was drawn on the basis of some of the things that Greenville and Greer had done. Under that policy that is correct – so there would be arm bands that the only way you would have one is to be ID’d and that person would have an arm band of a certain color for that day – if it was a multi-day event there would be a different colored arm band for the next day. That’s the way Greenville has done it and they’ve really not experienced problems with that control system.
Mayor: Okay – anyone else. Mr. Larson
Mr. Larson: I was just going to welcome Ms. Ogletree to the City.
Ms. Ogletree: Thanks. I’m happy to be here.
Mr. Larson: Look forward to working with you.
Ms. Ogletree: I look forward to working with all of you all and seeing you out at the shows.
Mayor: All right anyone else have any – well it sounds to me like we’re going to have to – I mean we’ve danced around this thing for months and it sounds to me like what you’re saying is we’ve got to fish or cut bait. I mean this council has to make a decision either we are or we aren’t. And I hope we’re going to be prepared to do that at our next meeting. I ask this question in a different kind of way before. Let me rephrase the question because I want to make sure that I understand just how critical this is. Supposing that we decided not to do this. Do you believe you could put together some entertainment down there that would at least break even or would be beneficial to our community in some way. I don’t really know what I’m asking – I guess I’m asking –
Ms. Ogletree: Well it’s hard to say – you know you don’t really know. I just know that the level of national acts that are touring – that are available out there – that are going to the other amphitheaters that are already on the road – so it’s easier to get them routed in as they’re traveling. It’s just – they’re already out there working so it’s cheaper to get them because they’re already on the road – if you had to compete with some of the other buildings or the other markets you know – and there’s two sides to it – on one side the act may say well we don’t like to think our fans like to go to that building – they don’t want to come to your building because they can’t have beer and wine when they come to see us perform so I think we’re going to go over to the Bi-Lo Center because our fans know they can go there. They’ve been there before – they know they can get beer and wine so we’re probably going to choose that building this time. And then on the other hand you have the patron or fan who says oh I can’t get beer and wine while I’m watching the show at the Simpsonville Amphitheater so I don’t know that I want to buy a ticket to that show – I’ll wait until they come back through the market again – I’ll go to the Bi-Lo Center or I’ll travel to another City. Which a lot of people do. They may travel to Asheville or up to Charlotte or even down to Atlanta maybe to see an act because then they would feel more comfortable and feel like they would enjoy themselves more.
Mayor: How about Root Beer and Cheerwine. (Laughter)
Ms. Ogletree: I don’t think that would be the same. Not quite.
Mayor: All right – Mr. – what is your name – your new up here
Mr. Curtis: Let me chime in here. Have you ever managed a facility that did not have beer and wine sales?
Ms. Ogletree: I have not. There are very few that exist.
Mr. Curtis: Okay that was my next question. How many of them do you know of in this area.
Ms. Ogletree: I will tell you this. Usually the only facilities you find that do not serve beer and wine are on universities. University Campuses are usually the only locations that are known that they may not have beer and wine sales there. And most universities do not get major tours. A few of them may get some but not many. They’re going to get some of the mid-level acts. Some of the smaller acts. Maybe an up and coming band or they’ll get more of the performing arts type performances – you know orchestral type things that sort of thing. But they’re not going to get some of your top level touring acts. But I cannot think of a single public facility that is not related to a university that does not sell beer and wine.
Mr. Curtis: Okay thank you.
Mayor: All right anyone else. Mr. Larson again.
Mr. Larson: I was just going to see if you could give us a few examples of different groups that would possibly come here if we did have the beer and wine in place
Ms. Ogletree: If you did
Mr. Larson: If we did
Ms. Ogletree: Well I can tell you specifically that we made some calls yesterday on Tom Petty, on Almond Brothers ZZ Top, on Leonard Skinnard, Hank Williams Jr., Allison Crouse and possibly with Robert Plan and possibly without. It depends on what time period she would come through. A package with maybe some bands you haven’t heard of. Smashing Pumpkins and Muse, so a number of acts just yesterday that we were calling on. You know just kind of introducing ourselves to the agents that handle these acts and letting them know we’re here and that we’d be available mid-summer to fall and we’d like to get routed in on some of those tours.
Mr. Larson: That would be huge
Mayor: I didn’t hear you mention Hannah Montanna.
Ms. Ogletree: Hannah Montanna I think is done right now. She’s out – although I am trying to get a Jonas Brothers date. That would be great
Mayor: Would there be Root Beer and Cheerwine served at that.
Ms. Ogletree: Yes we could do Root Beer and Cheerwine in addition to beer and wine.
Ms. Bagwell: That would make my child very happy
Ms. Ogletree: Jonas Brothers –
Mayor: Well and that’s – we have grandchildren so we know these things. All right anyone else. Well I’m sure we’ll be calling you and dropping by to see you and we’ll have a lot more questions about that and probably a little more grilling so get yourself up to speed.
Ms. Ogletree: No problem. I’m happy to answer any questions.
Mayor: Thank you so much. We appreciate it. All right Mr. Hawes you got any final comments or thoughts on that subject before we move on to something else.
Mr. Hawes: No sir Mayor and Council. I want to make sure everybody had their opportunity to speak on this. Anybody else have any thoughts or questions they want to share with us. Okay.
• Building Permit Administrative Fee Mayor: Next item is Building Permit Administrative Fee. It sounds a little more mundane to me but go ahead.
Mr. Hawes: Yes sir Mr. Mayor. We implemented – the City implemented last year the adoption of the budget and concurrent with that a permit administrative fee whereby costs to the City that have been borne by the Administrative Department viewing – not site plan review which is normally included in the building permit fee but accessory costs such as working with DHEC on complaints from neighbors when there are developments. Certain over-site regulatory aspects that the City does with regard to any development in the City – review of traffic impacts – things along those lines. That are separate really from the building permit review should be accounted for. And this accounting was determined that it would be a ½% of the over-all building costs – the development costs of the property that would be a separate fee from the building permit fee but collected at the same time. In the implementation of that over the past months we’ve observed that as you get into the higher ranges of the building activity that building permit – the administrative fee aspect that is collected with the building permit fees has gone up – has been I guess when collected a higher level than what we expected. What we feel is the most appropriate way to work with developers and to be fair and make sure that we have a nexus between what we’re collecting and what services we’re providing. So basically when you get above the 2 million dollar range that ½% got over $10,000 and what I’m proposing here is that we would just cap that ½% collected at $10,000 so if there’s a 10 million dollar building it’s not a $50,000 administrative fee. It would be capped at $10,000. I’m proposing this before council right now because I would like to bring this as an item for the voting session to adjust the building permit regulation of the City.
Mayor: Well now you’re either a flat fee guy or not – you can’t have it both ways. But – so you’re saying when the building permit gets really large that that fee gets really large and you think you should make adjustments for that.
Mr. Hawes: Yeah. I think it’s quite reasonable up to the 2 million dollar total building permit – total building cost amount. When you get above 2 million really no matter how much of regulatory work the City has to go through $10,000 is a logical cap but when you’re on the down/low end of it – it is a sliding scale with a cap – when you’re down on the lower end of the sliding scale it’s quite appropriate. If you’re building a house you know a ½% of that house is just $1,000 and that’s what appropriate for the level of activity that we’re having to go through that is beyond the normal building permit and site review process. As you get up into the commercial buildings and so forth if it’s a million dollars it’s $5,000 for the administrative fee. That’s a reasonable amount because we’re having to contact DHEC – we’re having to make sure the silt fences are set correctly. We’re having to go back after the fact on many occasions and that’s a reasonable extension of what the cost is. When you get up to the $10,000 range that’s really a logical cap. So that’s basically what I’m proposing.
Mayor: Okay anyone have any – Ms. Sanders
Ms. Sanders: Does it ever cost us more than $10,000 to do the administration. Is there a
Mr. Hawes: Seldom would it and in those cases I wouldn’t want to burden others who we didn’t have to do that with that type of fee.
Ms. Sanders: Are you saying up to $10,000
Mr. Hawes: That is correct it would be capped at $10,000
Ms. Sanders: And then we could make allowances – just say what if it’s some kind of cost that’s $15,000 would we be able to bill them for the extra
Mr. Hawes: Probably not. Because if you cap it at $10,000 you cap it at $10,000
Mayor: Okay – Mr. Curtis
Mr. Curtis: Where would that fee structure place us with regard to other cities in the area and where do our building permit fees stand with regard to other cities in the area.
Mr. Hawes: Our building permit fees are quite comparable to other cities in the area. Including Greenville , Greer so forth. It’s what happened when we had the larger development of 10 million dollars or something when that administrative fee would be a little out of that range.
Mr. Curtis: Do any of those cities have a similar fee.
Mr. Hawes: They have different ways – they don’t have the ½% flat fee no. But they may have higher rates to start with – I know Greer’s rate is higher than ours to start with.
Mr. Curtis: When you present this can I possibly see some comparisons.
Mr. Hawes: Absolutely.
Mayor: Okay. Anyone else. All right thank you Mr. Hawes, we’ll take that under advisement.
EXECUTIVE SESSION • Two contractual matters – Administration Mayor: Well gee we’re already down to item number 10. It looks like we have a need for an Executive Session to discuss 2 contractual matters relating to administration. So I’ll entertain a motion in that regard. Ms. Bagwell
Ms. Bagwell: I move that we go into Executive Session to discuss 2 contractual matters concerning Administration.
Mayor: Thank you Ms. Bagwell. Do I hear a second
Mr. Curtis: Second
Mayor: Mr. Curtis seconds. Thank you Mr. Curtis. All in favor signify by saying Aye(AYE) opposed No. Aye’s have it it’s unanimous. We are adjourned. We’ll take about a 10 minutes recess so we can go back and look at all these things and kiss all those guys that are leaving and hug all their wives that they brought with them. Thank you all for coming.
OUT OF EXECUTIVE SESSION – NO ACTION WAS TAKEN
ADJOURNMENT
Ms. Sanders: I move that we close the February 26 th meeting.
Mayor: Thank you Ms. Sanders do I hear a second
Mr. Larson: Second
Mayor: Mr. Larson seconds. All in favor signify by saying Aye (AYE) opposed No. The Aye’s have it it’s unanimous. We’re adjourned. Thank you all for coming.
Respectfully submitted,
PAMELA J. BODKINS City Clerk |
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