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| The following summary minutes have not been approved by Simpsonville City Council. An official copy of the minutes will be available after adopted by City Council at City Hall 118 NE Main St. Simpsonville. Pursuant to the Freedom of Information Act, notice of this meeting date, time, place and Agenda was posted on the bulletin board at City Hall and faxed to the newspapers, radio stations, television stations and any concerned citizens. |
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SIMPSONVILLE CITY COUNCIL MINUTES WORKSHOP SESSION June 26, 2007 6:30 P.M.
CALL TO ORDER: Mayor declared the June 26, 2007 meeting of Simpsonville City Council in session and call it to order.
ROLL CALL: Ms. Bodkins: Yes sir: Councilmember Bridges: Here Councilmember Garrett: Here Councilmember Lawrence: Here Councilmember Bagwell: Here Councilmember Zitricki: Here Councilmember Larson: Here Mayor Waldrop: Present
INVOCATION: Invocation was given by Councilmember Brown Garrett.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
CITIZEN COMMENTS No one was on the Agenda and no one signed up prior to the meeting to speak.
COUNCIL COMMENTS Councilmember Lawrence asked if we knew the total on monies taken in at Freedom Weekend Aloft yet. Mr. Hawes stated he had talked to the FWA people and their accountant was in the process of reviewing receipts. They should know something in the next 2-3 weeks.
Councilmember Garrett asked if we had heard anything further from DOT on having a 4-way stop sign placed at South Main and Richardson . Mr. Hawes stated that he knew they had done a car count at that location and they were close to making a decision on whether a 4-way stop was needed or not.
Councilmember Larson stated that he was still receiving compliments on the Freedom Weekend Aloft from businesses and residents alike. It appears that everyone was very happy with the outcome of that event.
PRESENTATION – LEGISLATIVE UPDATE BY GARRY SMITH Mr. Smith: Thank you Mayor Waldrop and Council for this opportunity. As I stated before and after my election to the South Carolina House, it is my intention to work with you and for you to serve this community. As part of this commitment, I have made it my responsibility to make myself available to you, and you have been gracious many times in the past and today in allowing me this time. And I appreciate it. Together we have accomplished many things from the resurfacing of streets, replacement of sidewalks, the installation of water and sewer lines into the Heritage Business Park, the relocation of Freedom Weekend Aloft from Anderson to Simpsonville, the replacement of sewer lines in the downtown, to where we are today with the sewer line issues in the Morton community and Hunters Woods.
And the future looks bright. With the Grand opening tomorrow of the new Bi-Lo Super Center . The funding for the improvements needed at the Donaldson Center to retain the 1,700 jobs at Lockhead Martin, the funding of the match monies for the FEMA ice storm reimbursements, the continued funding of Freedom Weekend Aloft; the most nationally awarded tourist event in South Carolina now located in Simpsonville, the funding of a portion of the monthly costs associated with the 800 mhz emergency services communications system, and the reform of the Workers Compensation system which will also positively effect the bottom line of the city’s budget.
I will continue to work with you for the betterment of our community. Thank you again for allowing me to be here and for the pleasure of being your representative in the South Carolina House of Representatives. I will be happy at this time to attempt to answer any questions that you may have.
Mayor: There were no questions and I guess that’s because you make yourself so readily available to us at all times. We thank you for coming again and always look forward to working with you and seeing you.
OLD BUSINESS: • Hunters Woods Sewer Line Update Mr. Hawes: City council after hearing the information from Frazier Engineering requested that Frazier Engineering to continue with an analysis to T.V. and identify any dips or sags in the existing line between the manholes along the Hunters Woods line, basically on the Hunters Woods side of Fairview Road primarily. The did look slightly on the other side of Fairview but they identified a 3% slope and negligible issues regarding any dips or sags on that side. So, basically the Frazier Engineering analysis tried to determine if there were sags of significance along the line from the first manhole on the Hunters Woods side of Fairview Road up to where the line makes a steeper slope. And they were also doing some GPS identification of the exact slope of the existing line to confirm what we had understood was a .5% slope. Basically they came back with information regarding the dips and the sags that they identified in that line and confirmed our analysis of the slope of the existing line as being approximately .5%. Certainly within the tolerances of acceptability but towards the lower end of those. So, with that information City Council directed staff to identify a cost estimate, work with contractors and Frazier to identify the cost of repairing that section of sewer line that lies directly under Hunters Woods Road . The cost of entering the line, removing it, resloping it to a 1% slope from beginning to end from manhole 1 to manhole 6 and that information was delivered to us today and is approximately $250,000 to take that project on specifically to reslope the line and to replace it with the same width of line – an 8 inch line. It was mentioned that there could be a possibility of going to a 10 inch line in there but that really is not an acceptable situation because the 10 inch line would still then drop into an 8 inch line and there’s no real benefit there to do that. If you’re going to reslope it you just leave it at 8 inches. So that is where we stand right now with that particular analysis on the line that goes directly under the street.
Mayor: Okay – was that a finger Ms. Lawrence – I’ll recognize the finger
Ms. Lawrence: Well I would like council to agree with me that we need to bid this project and you know get on it. When you have Frazier do the plans so that whoever wants to put in a bid looks at it, and knows what they’re doing, has no doubt in their mind what we want – he’s talking about from manhole 5 to manhole 1 – he doesn’t recommend changing from 6 to 5 because it’s already a 3% slope. But I would like for us to ask Mr. Hawes to proceed and bid this project and let’s get it done. We’ve talked about it for too many years.
Mayor: Okay. Ms. Bagwell
Ms. Bagwell: Mr. Hawes I spoke with you earlier today concerning our options on this and I just want to make sure we’re looking at the most viable option. You and I discussed possibly instead of having to dig up Hunters Woods Drive running an adjacent sewer line on the – by that creek that would only affect a few homeowners as opposed to affecting the entire community. And we would be able to replace it with 10 inch pipe as I understand it if we did it that way.
Mr. Hawes: Well certainly one of the options that was placed before City Council a while back was the consideration of a parallel line along the creek that would be at a significant slope – at 1% plus slope – but also would terminate at the 10” – where the 10” pipe starts and could be done such that it could be a full 10” pipe the entire way. It would add capacity basically in that scenario. That particular scenario would be done primarily along SCDOT current right of way which is along the creek side and impact three homeowners directly in existing easements of the City and one homeowner outside the existing easements.
Ms. Bagwell: The cost of such would be relatively equivalent to what we’re looking at at the $250,000 or less.
Mr. Hawes: Yes, the numbers that we have right now are that that would be virtually the same cost as what was proposed in the road.
Ms. Bagwell: And what time-frame are we looking at if we did it – if we did the adjacent line what time frame would it take – have they given you an estimate as to how long it would take them to finish that project if they did the adjacent line.
Mr. Hawes: I haven’t heard an exact estimate but I know that that was proposed a while back and there was some preliminary engineering done for that particular scenario so I think we’re probably a little farther ahead in that scenario than in the under the road scenario because there has been no preliminary engineering on re-sloping the line under the road where there has been some on paralleling.
Ms. Bagwell: I guess my concern is that if we actually – and it’s – I’m not close to it – but if we actually do this and we dig up Hunters Woods Drive we’re affecting an entire community and we’re not gaining any capacity we’re just replacing the line the way the sags are. Where as if we went along the adjacent – if we went along the creek with that other line we would be gaining capacity and would be affecting fewer homeowners, fewer residents.
Mr. Hawes: Certainly there would be virtually no traffic disruption in the second scenario where in the first scenario you’d have to close Hunters Woods Drive
Ms. Bagwell: and it would only affect just a few homeowners as opposed to the majority of the community
Mr. Hawes: You could say that certainly.
Ms. Bagwell: I think that we need to – I’m personally getting in at the tail end of this – I know it’s been looked at in the other direction – but I think that needs to be considered on an equal footing simply because we may be looking at the greater good. I know that it’s an inconvenience for some but less inconvenience for the entire community. We need to kind of get the people together and see which we’d prefer to do.
Mr. Hawes: What I could do is basically give you a scenario 1 and scenario 2 with some hard numbers and exact laid out in a map and showing who would be affected in each scenario and have that for you at your next meeting which would be a voting meeting at which time hopefully City Council could decide on which they wanted to do.
Ms. Bagwell: I would appreciate that.
Mayor: Is that $250,000 that you’re throwing around there for the 8 inch line in the street – I remember asking Frazier if that included paving and
Mr. Hawes: It does
Mayor: But is that patch paving or is that re-paving the street
Mr. Hawes: That I can’t answer – Joe Carter is here he might be able to answer that.
Mr. Carter: It would repave the street
Mr. Hawes: Repave the entire street
Mayor: That was repaving the entire street. But he did – he did say that we would have to put up a by-pass pumping station with the line on the surface while they were doing the construction so the sewer continued to flow and that. I think Mr. Zitricki had something he wanted to say.
Mr. Zitricki: Mr. Hawes we spoke at the last meeting about getting an estimate also instead of stopping at manhole 1 going to manhole 1A. Have you got an estimate on that also.
Mr. Hawes: Not that I’m aware of. DO we
Mr. Carter: We just did what Frazier recommended. I wasn’t at the last meeting so we just did the Frazier recommendadtion.
Mr. Zitricki: I’d like to have that for the next meeting also – you can do that from 5 to 1A instead of 1. Because 1A has a slope of over 3% which is really significant. It wouldn’t add more capacity but it would add to the volume of water that could pass through it. Let’s look at that also. So we’ll have 3 scenarios for the next meeting.
Mr. Hawes: We can do that.
Mayor: Excuse me. Ms. Bagwell
Ms. Bagwell: Part of my concern to when I was thinking about traffic if this is going to take – if we dig up Hunters Woods Drive and this is going to take 2-3 months as I believe they said at the last meeting, we’re looking at school being back in so we’re looking at major traffic back-ups, major traffic issues in Hunters Woods and it’s going to affect the Fairview Road traffic as well because people turn in to Hunters Woods from Fairview Road will definitely be affected by that.
Mayor: Okay – Mr. Larson.
Mr. Larson: I was trying to remember when we had talked about going down the creek – was there some environmental issues that we would have to deal with or some long-term changes in the creek bed or – I think some residents concerned some concern that major trees would have to be taken down. I’m just trying to remember how that discussion ended up.
Mayor: Ms. Lawrence can answer that
Ms. Lawrence: Well yes there was a lot of concern. That creek is all slate. A lot of those houses are brick. When you go to blasting in that creek, not to mention the fact that you’d have to strip out all those trees to get heavy equipment in there. Mr. Carter will tell you right now he can’t even get a pick-up truck in there. There was – you know there was the expectation that a lot of the mortar between the brick was going to come loose when the blasting started and that was just a real concern to the citizens. Actually, you know you’re looking at what you’re closing – if people are going out they can go up and get onto Davenport and go around Grandview as easy as they can come down that section while it’s closed for a little while. I don’t see where that’s an issue. Now Mr. Mayor you were talking about where you thought it ought to be 10” in the road.
Mayor: Yeah, I think we ought to make sure that we complete the 10” run on that pipe. In my mind it’s fool hardy to go in there and replace part of the 8” section with new pipe, different slope, but still an 8” pipe. If we’re going to do it I’d like to see us go 10” all the way through. And it seems to me that using the existing right-of-way and I know there’s some trees that will have to come down and I know there’s some folks that are not going to like that very much but it is a right-of-way and it was a right-of-way when they bought the house – they should have been aware of that – you’re just assuming that they’re going to have to blast in there. Mr. Carter is there any way that we can determine if there are rock beds outside of the already excavated trench for the existing line. Can we probe it or can we find out before we complete this discussion. If there is rock that must be blasted.
Mr. Carter: We can talk with that engineering Site Design they would have identified that.
Mayor:` I would like to have that information before we complete the discussion because if there’s no blasting to be done down there then that eliminates that complaint and then the only complaint left is some trees, and while that may be painful it’s still makes more sense to me than digging up the street or putting in a partial replacement line.
Mr. Hawes: We might be able to show you exactly which trees would need to be removed as well by that time. Because preliminary engineering has been done.
Mayor: That would be even better. Perhaps we can show the folks down there which trees are coming out and they can help us make that decision. Ms. Bagwell again.
Ms. Bagwell: Can we replace those trees. If we’re taking trees down – I mean I know it’s going to take a while for them to grow back into whatever situation – but if we were taking down huge trees if that’s their concern can we replace them that way it protects the erosion from the creek if we take some of that stuff to.
Mayor: Well I don’t think we can ever replace a large tree. I know what you’re saying but let me back up – I remember Mr. Carter and Mr. Hawes I don’t remember if it was before you came or not Mr. Hawes, but I remember years ago we talked about keeping our easements clear. So if we had been practicing good easement, and I’m not criticizing anybody – I know why we couldn’t do that but I mean here we are today having this conversation about something that we should have taken care of years ago had we been practicing good right-of-way maintenance and keeping the vegetation cut a way like we should have these wouldn’t be big trees now and we wouldn’t be having this conversation so in my mind we’re only taking out something we should have taken out a long time ago to maintain our right-of-ways which is our responsibility. So I don’t know we can beat this horse three different ways.
Mr. Hawes: Well let’s – if we could just see what the impact would be of each scenario – and we’ll be glad to do an impact based analysis – strictly impact based to – I mean we can look at which trees will be removed, if there is blasting involved, to what extent the blasting would be and what the impact would be of closing Hunters Woods Road on surrounding roads and on surrounding neighborhoods and things along those lines and really give you a fact based analysis on two scenarios. It’s good that we’re narrowing to two scenarios from what we’ve had previously.
Mayor: Well I think we have information now. It’s indisputable. I mean we’ve had information before but there was always something to dispute. I think what we have now is indisputable. So – anyone else. Mr. Larson – you’re going to have to wave higher.
Mr. Larson: I just wanted to add the way I’m looking at it at this point until we get more information is if you went down the street when it’s finished the street is going to be better than it is now. It’s going to be completely repaved, the sewer’s going to be fixed if you’re talking 10” vs. 8”. We know for a fact it’s not going to be any worse than it is now as far as the pavement and the access. If we go down the creek I think there’s some questions as to what the long-term affects of going down the creek may be. There are some of our other neighborhoods that are having a lot of erosion problems in their creeks and their back yards so we don’t want to start another creek issue in someone’s back yard so we just need to make sure we get all the information to make a good decision.
Mayor: Okay – sorry I interrupted you there – it was a response. All right, anyone else. All right we’ll look forward to all of our questions being answered at our next meeting Mr. Hawes.
• Street Resurfacing – Davenport Road Mayor: Now just right on into Davenport Road .
Mr. Hawes: Yes sir, in the same area of town Davenport Road has been identified as a road that is highly traveled and is showing the effects of that travel. It’s a worn road, it’s got alligatoring of the shoulders, primarily the shoulders but it’s also alligatored in a good number of areas besides the shoulders. It is in need of repair. It was identified on the original street resurfacing list but it was also identified as being a high dollar project on that list and we wanted to make sure that we took care of the other streets before we tackled Davenport . What has happened since the street resurfacing has been virtually completed is we have found that we are $85,000 under the bid for the street resurfacing and we have basically moved forward with doing what we can with Davenport, while it may not take care of every aspect of Davenport we can safe up and stabilize Davenport by doing all of the full depth patching and preparation for a top coat of resurfacing in this current bond. And take care of that process right there with the knowledge that as money becomes available in the future we would put that top layer of asphalt on. But the improvement would be that prior to any further deterioration of that road, and it is deteriorating day to day – we can safe that road up and stabilize it and do that within the monies that we have available right now. And I was moving forward on that and wanted to let you know that that would be my intent right here.
Mayor: Okay Ms. Lawrence.
Ms. Lawrence: Does that include widening it.
Mr. Hawes: Not at this point.
Ms. Lawrence: See I don’t think we need to jump into it half way. I think we need to when we do it do the whole thing and do it right at one time.
Mr. Hawes: We looked into widening it
Mayor: It will become another sewer line
Ms. Lawrence: Exactly – it needs to be done right at one time instead of throwing $85,000 at it today and then next year don’t know how much. I mean can’t we put that money aside in our
Mr. Hawes: Oh we could.
Ms. Lawrence: in an account for this and then hopefully – I mean I thought our intent had been the $100,000 paving match that we’ve put up if we get that for paving I mean that would be $285,000 that’d be $285,000 that ought to do Davenport and do it right.
Mr. Hawes: Yeah I believe it would. If we took all of the paving match and the resurfacing monies that we have available and put it all to Davenport we could do that.
Ms. Lawrence: I think that’s what we need to do. In my opinion.
Mayor: Well I agree with Ms. Lawrence. I think one of the big issues on Davenport I see is there is a dangerous blind spot when you’re going east to west and trying to turn into Hunters Woods. I tell you the way some of those people drive that road – if you don’t turn pretty quickly you’re endangering your life and their’s to. So I’d like to see before we resurface it – regrade it and take that hump out if it’s possible. I don’t know if it’s even possible. I looked at the grade on that the other day Joe and I don’t know whether you can get all that out or not, but at least improve the line of site for the turn there and then resurface after that and all the other repairs to be made.
Mr. Hawes: I believe the total cost for the widening, the resurfacing and everything was approximately $200,000 even Joe. $250,000
Mayor: And that would include regarding.
Mr. Carter: All that would get you is a 4’ wider road – 2’ on each side.
Mayor: So it’s going to widen the shoulder like they did Jonesville Road – widen the shoulders and the resurface.
Mr. Hawes: Yeah I don’t know that it does anything with the vertical rises that you’re talking about.
Mayor: Can we find out. Can we find out and get that information back to us. Ms. Bagwell
Ms. Bagwell: On that same note, I can – I live there – that’s the way I go home every day and I can tell you that is – I’ve about been creamed there quite a few times. If there is any way of getting that hump out of there. I stop that’s the only reason I haven’t been creamed already. I actually stop there before I make that left hand turn – so if you can –
Mr. Hawes: We can certainly look into that.
Mayor: Okay anyone else.
Mr. Zitricki: I think that’s a wonderful idea. I think we ought to just hold that $85,000 and get the county match money from the $100,000 we put in and have $285,000 to put down for it. And $35,000 for the grid.
Mayor: All right – anyone else.
Mr. Larson: Yeah, if we’re going to do it we need to do it right – and you’re exactly right about that hump – I mean that’s a really bad left-hand turn right there.
Mayor: All right, thank you ladies and gentlemen. Hold onto it and bring us back some information on doing it and doing it right. All right, thank you Mr. Hawes.
NEW BUSINESS: • Non-conforming signs discussion Mayor: Ms. Lawrence you want to talk about non-conforming signs,
Ms. Lawrence: Yes Mr. Mayor I was bringing the non-conforming signs forward for the Planning Commission, but Mr. Witkowski was not able to be here tonight at the last minute and so he just asked that he have assurances that nothing would be approved until our new Planning and Zoning Administrator came on board on Friday and he could meet with him. And so that’s my thirty seconds worth and that’s all there is to that.
• Fields at Heritage Park Mayor: All right next on the agenda is Mr. Hawes you’re back up again and tell us about the fields at Heritage Park and I hope you tell us it’s sprouting and running and growing and builing turf.
Mr. Hawes: Well I will tell you that. Yes absolutely, the fields are in great shape. There’s no doubt about that. There has been a proposal from our recreation director however to in his proposal improve the versatility of Heritage Park with regard to hosting different types of tournaments. Mr. Davis proposes that two of the grass infields at Heritage Park be removed to create five skinned fields and 1 grass infield, whereas right now we have 3 grass and 3 skin. You have a memorandum in your packet that identifies some of the rational that Mr. Davis puts forth regarding this. Primarily, that we would be able to host more softball tournaments rather than baseball tournaments or at least add softball to our current list of baseball tournaments let me put it that way. Whereas right now softball can only use three fields because they will only play on skin fields. Baseball will play on either. So, the question really was put forth to me should we approve removing the grass from the two infields other than 5, I believe it’s field 1 and field 3 that are grass right now that would go to skin. What I indicated my concern to Robbie that I felt that grass has a classy appearance and Heritage Park is a first class facility and when you look at a first class baseball type facility I know if you go to West End Field or a minor league professional or major league professional you’re going to see a grass infield. And I had some concern. Well if you have 5 skinned fields it basically has the appearance of sand lot baseball. He said well more and more places are going to that because the versatility and the availability to adapt to different types of tournaments and to begin to turn them around quicker in the case of rain storms and things along those lines. The grass tends to hold water whereas the skins run right off – was a compelling argument. And it’s really something that I did not feel comfortable doing or approving on my own and I felt it was appropriate to bring it to City Council because this is a major change to the facility. It’s appearance, it’s function and it’s future. So as this is a workshop I felt this was the appropriate venue to discuss this change or proposal.
Mayor: Okay, Mr. Zitricki
Mr. Zitricki: I’d like to have Mr. Davis come up and elaborate why it would be a benefit to do this.
Mayor: Come forward Mr. Davis.
Mr. Larson: Could I ask a quick question
Mayor: Mr. Larson wants to add a question before you get started.
Mr. Larson: Skin means dirt – is that correct.
Mr. Davis: Skin means dirt. Mayor and Council Members, myself and Shane Windham who’s our parks administrator – we’ve probably been talking about this a couple of years now. We become more marketable in the sense of bringing in some softball tournaments as well as baseball. The question we get right now is not how many dirt and how many skin, how many grass – it’s how many do you have. And six seems to be a good number for a lot of tournaments. Since we opened in April 1, 2005 we’ve only had 3 softball tournaments that did not go over 8 teams. Two in February and one in March. The girls will not play on grass. They want to play on the skin. We have college softball tournament coming September 23 rd . The Furman University Heritage Classic. Three fields is all she’ll use. They’ll warm up on the other ones and the outfield but they don’t want to use it. We’re in line for a bid with the Carolina/Virginia Athletic Conference which is the earth skin fight for Belmont Abby. They want to bring their conference tournament in April ’08 to Heritage Park . They’re only going to use 3 fields. All it does is it just drags out more. The girls – the ASA Girls they won’t even entertain coming here. Three’s not enough for what they bring to you. They all go to Spartanburg – they go to Aiken or they go to Augusta or Cherry Park in Rock Hill . So the only thing that becomes more marketable for us – boys are going to come – boys are going to play on anything. We are a premier baseball facility. But we’re not a premier softball facility. From a maintenance issue from Mr. Windham, field 3 we had an early tournament in June. Field 3 – it rained, the grass infield as it held water it started seeping – you know when water runs off through the baselines and all. Field 1, field 5 the tournament director decided to cancel the entire day. Couldn’t play on all 6 wasn’t playing at all. Cancelled the day on us. That was his decision not ours. We were a facilitator in that. So, just the bottom line for me is we’re more marketable – I think from a maintenance issue from the Park Superintendent is it would be a lot easier to maintain. If you see a bad spot or a low spot in a dirt field you can move dirt, you can add. Grass you can’t do that. You know you just can’t do it. I don’t believe we were laser graded when we put the three infields down with the grass on it so what we’ve got is what we’ve got. Until we peel them up, laser grade them and put them back down then I think the drainage would be absolutely beautiful. I think the cost of this for us to take it up – which if we took up the grass we could use that grass in the area of the training center where we ended up stopping the sodding that we did inside – we could enhance that area. Or we could use it on the football field at City Park to enhance that field where we have some bad wear spots from the weekend play I’ll call it. The non-scheduled activities that we have. Cost would be from Shane’s standpoint would probably be 5-6 loads of sand clay to come in to take where the grass come up and would probably cost us $1,200. I can take that out of landscaping out of my budget to help him. Again, that’s just a quick scenario. Bottom line from a scheduling and a maintenance issue.
Mayor: Ms. Bagwell had her finger up first
Ms. Bagwell: You’ve given us the pros what are the cons.
Mr. Davis: Cons – there will be limited softball, limited
Ms. Bagwell: If we don’t
Mr. Davis: If we don’t. Baseball’s still going to come. They’re still coming
Ms. Bagwell: So the appearance is the only thing that –
Mr. Davis: And if you and if all of you could stand in the tower right now and look down on Field 1 or Field 3 we haven’t got that much grass to begin with I’ll be honest with you, because the way we do our mounds and the way we have our cut-outs – we’re limited in the grass that we have out there. Baseball’s still coming. They’re still going to play. It’s a numbers game. It’s six fields that’s all they want to know.
Mayor: Okay – Mr. Hawes
Mr. Hawes: Yeah, I just wanted to clarify the cost involved in this procedure – we did – we contacted a grading company because they would have to be laser graded. You can’t just poor new sand clay in where the sod was. You have to then recrown it and that would be about $3,200 per field so it’s about $6,400.
Mr. Davis: I won’t say I’m going to argue that point but the 3 infields that we have now that are skin were not laser graded and they are pretty darn good because our guys have been able to get out their and work certain areas to make them. Because again it’s visual – you can see that – you can maneuver with the machinery that we have. I don’t know if we – would I love to have them laser graded – all six of them yes ma’ams and sirs I would. But I don’t know if that would be the end all to it.
Mayor: Okay Mr. Zitricki you called him up and then haven’t had a chance to say anything so I’m going to go to you next.
Mr. Zitricki: Mr. Davis, bottom line is how much revenue would this generate if we did this over and above what we already get now.
Mr. Davis: I can’t answer that –
Mr. Zitricki: Your best guesstimate
Mr. Davis: I don’t know if we would generate any more
Mr. Zitricki: So what’s the benefit of doing this
Mr. Davis: The benefit would be to bring us to another market which I will say is our female market that we’re not being able to satisfy or accommodate at Heritage Park . There are a lot of girls that play softball. There’s a lot of boys that play baseball. Right now it’s all baseball.
Mr. Zitricki: But we’re talking tournament ball and we’re talking revenue from the tournament ball
Mr. Davis: Tournament ball – a girls tournament is just as profitable as a boys tournament. It all depends on the numbers that the tournament director brings in. He brings in 12 it’s low. He brings in 32 you do a little bit better.
Mr. Zitricki: So we’re looking at bringing more tournament softball here if we do this. So the increase – again your guesstimate – how much more we can increase that’s going to generate more revenue
Mr. Davis: If you loose tournaments because you have grass and you can’t play on them and like that scenario that I gave you. The 3 dirt fields were ready to go – couldn’t play on the grass. You could keep a tournament going. So as far as profitability we may loose less days of playing and you may make more money. I can’t give you a figure – I can’t give you a figure. There’s some tournaments that we’ve had boys that we’ve not made a dime on because of the number of teams involved. You know.
Mayor: Okay – Mr. Garrett
Mr. Garrett: Well you answered part of my question – we don’t charge these people anything to bring tournaments here
Mr. Davis:` Well we usually have some contractual agreements. We charge them a field fee, they usually get the entry fees, which they pay the umpires and awards. We get probably 60% of the gate and they get 40% and we get all concessions. And that’s usually – that’s kind of the way it works throughout the state. And some tournament directors are different than others. You give a little bit better deal we get a little bit better deal – some we’re harder on you know – because the ones that bring in the numbers it’s a little bit better to make a little bit better contract with them.
Mayor: Okay – Ms. Bagwell
Ms. Bagwell: You did mention that there is a girls group ACSASE.
Mr. Davis: It’s Called CBAC Carolina Virginia’s Athletic Conference
Ms. Bagwell: Okay so they would be considering doing their tournaments here
Mr. Davis: They’re still considering it yes ma’am. They’re considering it with three. Now five just gives them more to play on as far as – I don’t think they will not come here because of 3. But just like the ASA Director for girls youth which that would end up being more of our market.
Ms. Bagwell: That’s the one I’m talking about
Mr. Davis: IF I called him up and I said David I can offer you 5 fields he said could you get me 7. He wants – he wants more – his first thing was if you have 5 can you get me the two at the highschool. That would give me 7. DO you have any more. And I said well I’ve got two on the other side of town. I could use them to. They like to stay at the nicer parks is what it comes down to. But there’s still no – I cannot give any one of you a guarantee that softball will still come here with 5 fields. I can’t do that until we get to negotiating for 2008. Probably would not come this year just for the fact that we’re booked up through November with tournaments. Except for the Furman Tournament we do know they are coming. All she knows is that she has 3 fields.
Mayor: Okay – Mr. Larson
Mr. Larson: Well I agree with Mr. Hawes as far as the appearance it looks really good to have the grass out there but if it increases the marketability to have the opportunity to have more teams coming here especially to open it up to the lady’s softball I think the park was built to bring groups to our area to use the fields and to you know stay in our hotels, and eat in our restaurants and if we open up another whole market with softball which my understanding that’s a huge sport to.
Mr. Davis: It is the potential to open up another market. Right now it’s pretty much closed. I mean that’s just the bottom line there but you know the boys teams they’re coming. They want all six fields. They don’t say well we’re just going to use 3 fields this weekend. Sometimes size dictates that. Most the time they want all six.
Mr. Larson: And the grass can be re-used
Mr. Davis: Again – I think – when we were discussing this with Shane and his crew they would have took it up – they’d take it up tomorrow. And I hate Shane’s not here to answer more of the maintenance issues. I don’t know all of the maintenance issues that they go with. It’s like every time they edge on the in-field. They’ve had to replace sand clay back in the base paths. You know – so – I can only give you limited from the maintenance standpoint from Shane.
Mayor: Okay – all right – Ms. Lawrence
Ms. Lawrence: Well I have talked to Shane. And it is definitely a maintenance issue but my way of looking at it if it opens up something else for us then you know you’re the one that negotiates – you’ve got my vote to do it – that’s just it.
Mr. Davis: I was standing here 3 years ago asking you for 3 grass – I was –
Ms. Lawrence: But you live and learn
Mr. Davis: I really didn’t think the girls would mind but they have proven to me that they’re not coming. The three tournaments that came were 3 high school season starting tournaments and really it’s because we were the only facility that wasn’t being used that they didn’t care – they just needed games. SO I learned. I did – I learned
Ms. Lawrence: And we knew the whole park – everything would be a learning process. So if it opens up a new market if there’s any possibility – because that’s what we promised the City when we built that park. SO thank you.
Mayor: Okay I’ve got a couple questions – you and I have talked and I committed to support you on this if you would keep that one field of grass infield because when I was playing little league we thought we’d died and gone to heaven if we had grass infield to play on and you agreed. You still have my support
Mr. Davis: Of the three grass field 5 is the best. That is the one that they’ve really done a great job on. We have another grass infield at Woodside Park that we – there’s a chance to showcase – I don’t know if you read the article in the Greenville News – the adult baseball – the great American past-time league. The adults are playing down there right now and loving it. And I just think
Mayor: Well that’s a great set-up for my next comment because this is where I was going with that. There was a but on the end of all that stuff – but I’ve been thinking since you and I talked and I have a couple of questions – first I want some assurance from you that we are not headed toward adult softball
Mr. Davis: I can assure you the fences are not long enough for adult softball. That park was designed and built in our eyes for a 14U park.
Mayor: ` Well I was going to remind you of that to – back when we were first talking about the planning for this park we were committed to youth baseball – actually no softball but we certainly didn’t want any adult softball for all the atmosphere that goes with it. The College teams that you’re talking about coming in here that’s a little different situation because they are college leagues are a controlled league and there won’t be any
Mr. Davis: They’re structured by a commission and things like that for conduct
Mayor: But my next question doesn’t have anything to do with that or the commitment I made to you. Are we having any trouble filling that park up with tournaments. I mean I’ve heard people are being turned down and we’ve got a tournament every weekend. Are we having any trouble getting people.
Mr. Davis: Well we booked last year in September for this year so we’re booked all the way through November. Now again, numbers are different. You may have a 12 team tournament. It depends on if the t.v. tournament director gets out there and really promotes his tournament. Most of our stuff now is USSSA and that’s the hottest thing going.
Mayor: Okay, well then if it’s not broke then why are we trying to fix it. I mean is there some greater profit – is there some greater gain for the community – is this a prestige thing or why – and I didn’t ask you that before and I apologize, because my brain doesn’t always work real quick – it takes a few days so
Mr. Davis: The only answer I can give you is again because it makes us more marketable with the girls fast pitch market in trying to lure some of them
Mayor: But if you’re selling all you can make already why do you want to –
Mr. Davis: I don’t know – everybody got tired of playing at Cherry Park – everybody got tired of playing at Aiken Citizens – I’m talking kids to – everybody got tired of playing down at Arrowhead Park in Cheraw and Freedom in Florence and all of a sudden we were the new kid on the block. I don’t know – again – if we don’t skin them things keep a getting it. It’s just that – I don’t know – I’m personally – I’m involved in a lot of softball I’d like to see the girls have an opportunity to play out there.
Mayor: So we don’t have any girls – I mean youthful girls playing
Mr. Davis Local league plays – we only play on grass infields – and again we had a maintenance issue – when the girls play on grass the concern from the maintenance division was they’re gonna start and they’re gonna start wearing the grass out when they land and things like that and that eliminates that. I can’t give you any real. The boys won’t go away – they’ll still be here.
Mayor: Well and that leads to the next question – Are we – can it be said that we are a bargain to these tournament directors and let me tell you why I’ve asked that – because I’ve heard just through grapevine people coming up and saying these things and people say things all the time but I have heard it said that these tournament directors love us because they can come up here and get rich off of our facility and they can’t do that at other facilities.
Mr. Davis I’m not going to say get rich. We were the new kid on the block so yeah we had to cut – cut some deals or whatever – but here’s the way I look at it also – we get some monies that the tournament director doesn’t get – indirect monies from the hotels and restaurants by bringing people here – Anderson – you know everybody’s I want to say coming back to our level – you know they’re trying to cut our throats now – to bring people to them – to bring people to Spartanburg – I think we’ve got a good thing going right now. And as Ms. Lawrence said first year yeah I think we sold ourself to the devil because we had to get these people in here – now it’s getting a little tighter and a little tighter for them.
Mayor: When you say a little tighter for them
Mr. Davis: I mean we’ll put a higher fee on the maintenance for the field usage
Mayor: So we have increased our –
Mr. Davis: It was 50/50 split on entry fee – now it’s 60/40 you know
Mayor: 60 for us and 40 for them
Mr. Davis: 60 for us and 40 for them
Mayor: So we have increased our fees and thereby our revenue – direct revenue not talking about the economic benefit in the community. Okay. All right. Anyone else. Ms. Lawrence wants to go again
Ms. Lawrence: Well yeah – I just want to say for the 12 years when mine were growing up I ran all over the southeast like you do now Robbie and I would love for the girls to have an opportunity to have tournaments at our park.
Mayor: Anyone else
Mr. Larson: I agree with Mrs. Lawrence
Mayor: Okay – anyone else. All right let’s see are you looking for the executive nod of approval tonight or do we need to bring this up at our regular meeting.
Mr. Hawes: I would expect this would probably be something that would be voted on at a voting meeting so that we’re clear as to what the intent of council is. I think unless there’s pretty much a concensus up there that you say hey you can go ahead and do it.
Mayor: Is there a short fuse on this. Okay well then let’s do that. Thank you for sitting in the hot seat.
• Arts Center Rental Mayor: All right, Mr. Hawes it’s you again – Arts Center Rental – we have an Arts Center
Mr. Hawes: Well we do – you better believe it. The consultant who is working on this project has updated city staff, myself included on the master plan work that he is developing right now for the Arts and Cultural Center at the old Simpsonville Elementary School . The master planning is coming along very nicely. We’ve got some really good ideas on the interior of the building and on the exterior on some ways to approach traffic flow, ingress/egress, boarding and lighting so it just – it’s coming along very nicely. By mid-August I would expect that we would have something to bring to council regarding what portions of the master plan we would want to approach to fund to get underway with renovations. With that stated I have received a request and would have the intent of fulfilling that request but I just wanted council to be aware of what my intent was here for the use of the building in November. And you have that letter of request in front of you. It’s from the American Legion Post 176. Basically it would be for the use of the building November 10 th for two separate shows and that would be at 2:00 pm and an evening show at 7:00 pm of gospel singing. They would provide all the necessary equipment, set-up and they would pay for security from off-duty police officers. Basically meet all the criteria we have for use of the building. I did want council to know that under this scenario we most likely couldn’t be heavily into renovations if we’re looking at renting the facility on November 10 th . I don’t expect that we would be heavily into renovations because even if the master plan and the decision were made to fund a certain portion of the master plan in mid to late August sometime during that time frame then we would have to go actually do construction plan – bring an architect in to design the work that would need to be done. I don’t expect that we would be heavily into renovations by November 10 th so I think this will work in our time frame and really wanted to make council aware that this would be an event held there on November 10 th unless there are specific objections along those lines I would intend to carry this out.
Mayor: Okay anyone have any comments or objections – Mr. Larson
Mr. Larson: I think it seems like a good idea and I think Mr. Hawes should go ahead and do what he needs to do to make it happen.
Mayor: Okay – Mr. Garrett
Mr. Garrett: What’s the rental fee – I’m just curious
Mr. Hawes: It’s $400 for the building since it’s not air conditioned and that fee will change when the building is renovated but currently it’s a pretty good rate.
Mayor: Okay does anybody have an objection to that. All right.
Mr. Hawes: That’s all I needed was clarification.
ADJOURNMENT Mayor: All right. Now, Ms. Lawrence it’s time for you to make your motion.
Ms. Lawrence: Mr. Mayor I make a motion we adjourn.
Mr. Garrett: Second
Mayor: Thank you Ms. Lawrence and Mr. Garrett seconds. All in favor signify by saying Aye (AYE) opposed No. Aye’s have it. We’re adjourned. Thank you all for coming.
Respectfully submitted,
PAMELA J. BODKINS City Clerk |
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| 118 N E Main Street, Simpsonville, SC 29681 |
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