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| The following summary minutes have not been approved by Simpsonville City Council. An official copy of the minutes will be available after adopted by City Council at City Hall 118 NE Main St. Simpsonville. Pursuant to the Freedom of Information Act, notice of this meeting date, time, place and Agenda was posted on the bulletin board at City Hall and faxed to the newspapers, radio stations, television stations and any concerned citizens. |
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SIMPSONVILLE CITY COUNCIL MINUTES BUSINESS SESSION March 13, 2007 6:30 P.M.
CALL TO ORDER: Mayor: Call the March Business meeting of Simpsonville City Council to order. I’d like to welcome you all hear tonight. Ms. Bodkins would you call the roll please. ROLL CALL: Ms. Bodkins: Yes sir: Councilmember Bridges: Here Councilmember Garrett: Here Councilmember Lawrence: Here Councilmember Gecy: Here Councilmember Zitricki: Here Councilmember Larson: Here Mayor Waldrop: Here
Mayor: Thank you.
INVOCATION: Mayor: Is there anyone among us tonight who would like to ask blessings upon this meeting in your own personal way. All right hearing none, Mr. Larson would you ask blessings on this meeting in your own person way please.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
APPROVAL OF MINUTES OF 02/13/07; 02/17/07 and 02/27/07 Mayor: All right councilmembers, you have in your packet the minutes of the February 13 th meeting, February 17 th meeting and the February 27 th meeting. I’ll entertain a motion in that regard at this time.
Mr. Gecy: Mr. Mayor I’ll make a motion that we approve the minutes as written.
Mayor: Thank you Mr. Gecy do I hear a second.
Ms. Lawrence: Second
Mayor: Ms. Lawrence seconds. Any discussion, deletions, changes, comments. All right, hearing none, I’ll call for the vote. All in favor signify by saying Aye (AYE) opposed No. Aye’s have it it’s unanimous. Those minutes are approved.
REVIEW OF MONTHLY REPORTS Mayor: Monthly reports – all the departments have as they always do submitted monthly reports and I’m assuming that they’re in your office down stairs. So if you haven’t reviewed those please do so. And thank you folks for providing those for us.
CITIZEN COMMENTS Mayor: This is the portion of the program where we invite citizen comments. No one has signed up to speak tonight and we have no one on the Agenda. So we’ll move right along.
CITY ADMINISTRATOR’S REPORT Mayor: Next on the Agenda is the City Administrator’s Report. Mr. Hawes
Mr. Hawes: Yes sir, Mayor and Council – with regard to Freedom Weekend Aloft – I want to start off on that – that’s been an ongoing project of the City. The amphitheater does continue to progress in its construction. Sanitary and storm sewer infrastructure has been installed and water is going in currently. Electrical conduit will be installed in the next two weeks. We are now in fine grading phase with all grading to be complete by the end of this month. If you all had the chance to go out and take a look at it it’s quite impressive. You can see the terraces and I actually stood on the stage and maybe I envisioned myself as a performer in May and looked out across the vast expanse of cheering throngs out there. It’s quite impressive. Use your imagination for right now. With the fine grading phase virtually complete we will begin irrigation and turf quality Bermuda sod will be installed probably mid next month. We’re looking at the sod going in April 15 th or so. That will give it over a month to take and it should do quite well. So we’re real excited about that.
Parking and Transportation plans are being finalized. We will be meeting with the parking contractor that FWA uses next week as a matter of fact. This will allow us to set optimal parking lot lane configurations and tie into our over-all transportation plans that we have for the event. Incident command structure has been set by the combined efforts of Chief Major and Chief Reece and we will be using adjustable lane configurations on S. E. Main Street for ingress and egress to the event with a dedicated lane for the parking shuttle busses.
For SC Legislative Action Day which was February 28 th , Bruce Larson and I attended the Municipal Associations Action Day in Columbia . We met with Garry Smith and Eric Beddingfield, our two House Representatives and attended classes and presentations on the New Home Town SC Initiative to get the word out about the importance of cities to the economic well being of the state. We discussed such items as taxation reform, enclave annexation and dedicated funding for the 800 megahertz communication mandate. Representative Smith did arrange for a behind the scenes tour of the State House that was quite enlightening and enjoyable. I think Mr. Larson would agree. Overall it was a very productive visit to Columbia .
The Arts and Cultural Center continues on the front burner as well. We had architectural consultants working and they’ve completed a structural analysis of the building. They found that the building is very sound structurally. Load bearing walls are primarily on the shell of the building and that will allow us to rework some of the interior walls to create a grand entrance and foyer at what is now the rear of the building. They also have done some preliminary work on ceiling and window treatments, new or renovated seating and electrical needs assessment. The architects will deliver us a master plan proposal in the next two weeks.
With regard to the 2008 operating budget. I have received the first draft of each department head’s budgets. We’ve sat down and reviewed all the departmental needs. In the review and analysis I am incorporating the feed-back and directives from City Council’s Planning Retreat to align the new budget with council’s goals and objectives. The process is progressing well and I will have a final draft for you all at the budget workshop on April 26 th .
Upcoming Events: The next meeting of City Council is our workshop meeting on the 27 th of March and Opening Day of Baseball is March 23 rd and 24 th at Heritage Park . We look forward to everyone being out there for that. I’m open to any questions.
Mayor: Okay, thank you Mr. Hawes. Well since Council comments is the next item on the Agenda I’m going to combine those two and let council as they make comments and instructions and maybe we can build some efficiencies into this meeting. So thank you for your report.
COUNCIL COMMENTS Mayor: Next item on the Agenda is council comments. Does anyone have comments. Ms. Lawrence you raised your finger.
Ms. Lawrence: Well one thing. Did you get my e-mail about the person that wanted to be on the bid list.
Mr. Hawes: Yes I did.
Ms. Lawrence: Okay – he’s local.
Mr. Hawes: Right, I understand.
Ms. Lawrence: And this sewer thing that you just gave me. We balance actually. Except for just like $25,000, you balance to me or the audit.
Mr. Hawes: Okay, that’s good.
Ms. Lawrence: That’s real good because that was going to be a topic of conversation. Kitten Action Team – I’ll give you all an update on that. We just finished fixing up a colony over on Edmunds. Actually, we got one too many. We got one of the neighbors cats, but I guess that’s all right. And we are now working in Powderhorn. Let me think. I think that was all I had right now on council comments. Thank you.
Mayor: Okay, Mr. Gecy
Mr. Gecy: Ms. Lawrence what were those numbers – share the numbers with us that balanced with the sewer fund.
Ms. Lawrence: Oh, okay – sure – okay we
Mr. Gecy: And I assume this is the money that is in our sewer fund
Ms. Lawrence: Okay we have received since June 30, 2004 through June 30, 2006 we received a million 59 thousand five hundred ten dollars. ($1,059,510). Out of that – now we do not include the bond in that okay – sewer department expenditures and capital as shown on the audits was $729,000 – Mr. Hawes has $754,000. So we’re off about $25,000 there. Leaving a fund balance of I said $730,000 but I had the $400,000 in there so it would be $330,000. Which they show a fund balance of $305,000. So where that $25,000 difference between the audit and this which is probably something that got coded in the wrong account I would think.
Mr. Hawes: I would expect that that’s a possibility.
Ms. Lawrence: So anyway the fund balance as of June 30, 2006 was $305,342.00
Mr. Gecy: Were you thinking we had more than that in there.
Ms. Lawrence: Well I was including the bond of $400,000 because I did not see where we had paid the $120,000, but we probably – have we paid the $120,000 since July 1 st .
Mr. Hawes: Yes ma’am.
Ms. Lawrence: Okay, so see I didn’t have that out of there so that had to come out so we’ve got $234,211.92 left of the bond.
Mr. Hawes: That’s correct
Ms. Lawrence: Which is in an interest bearing account. So the figures there that $25,000 off which is probably a coding error but outside that it’s –
Mr. Gecy: All right, so this million fifty nine is not monies that was budgeted from the general fund or from our taxes to go into the sewer fund. This is money that was collected from the $21.50 extra tax we all pay.
Ms. Lawrence.: Right.
Mr. Hawes: Well it’s not a tax it’s a user fee.
Mr. Gecy: Okay, whatever.
Mr. Hawes: Well a tax
Mr. Gecy: Okay, I understand. It sounds uglier to say tax – I meant it to sound like that. I appreciate your correct terminology though.
Mr. Hawes: No problem.
Mr. Gecy: Out of this money – we went back and forth talking about how this money was to be spent. We originally said – some minutes came up and we discovered that we all said that we were going to use this money and the intention this extra fee was to be used for sewer upgrades. This was the intention that we thought it was for. So in all actuality it’s going to pay sewer maintenance fees, it’s sewer maintenance costs, hourly wages, payroll for the sewers – is that right what I’m hearing.
Mr. Hawes: When the fee structure was started many many years ago that $8.25 had always been used for operating expenses. It was bumped to $21.50 because the CMOM analysis that was completed by Caliber Engineering identified a need to address items with regard to capital and rehab of existing sewer lines that totaled over two million dollars.
Mr. Gecy: So stop right there. I don’t want to interrupt you but stop right there. That’s exactly why we raised that to do upgrades to the sewer
Mr. Hawes: Correct
Mr. Gecy: Not spend it on maintenance – upgrade sewers – upgrade sewers. Does that make sense
Mr. Hawes: Rehab, upgrade – either
Mr. Gecy: Have we upgraded any sewers
Mr. Hawes: We’ve spent $750,000 in 2007 alone upgrading sewers.
Mr. Gecy: Where
Mr. Hawes: $400,000 on the Bi-Lo line – now $120,000 came out of the City’s pocket on that but we got a $400,000 upgrade on it.
Mr. Gecy: Right, we borrowed money for that.
Mr. Hawes: It still came out of the City’s pocket.
Mr. Gecy: But we borrowed money on top of the $21.50. Okay, come on – so what else did we do.
Mr. Hawes: A rehabilitation study that is underway currently right now in the priority basins. $82,000 on the Main Street line
Mr. Gecy: Which we got a grant for.
Mr. Hawes: $14,000 for improvements –
Mr. Gecy: You see what I’m getting at – we really are upgrading – but yes – we only upgrade when we get a grant and get a loan. I mean we need to
Mr. Hawes: Would you rather that I not try to receive grants
Mr. Gecy: No, no
Mr. Hawes: Okay
Mr. Gecy: I’m just saying that money needs to be put into the grant fund to upgrade some sewers. We have some sewer issues all over the City.
Mr. Hawes: We’ve got bids out for $135,000 truck that is itemized in the CMOM, the analysis that was completed by Caliber Engineering for the SSES. We have bids going out on that right now so that’s another $135,000 going into upgrade.
Mr. Gecy: I’m just reacting to what I’m getting from constituents who want to see this $21.50 that we get on our bill every quarter is used to upgrade and enhance our sewers. And I don’t think people really see that yet so I’m just responding to that.
The other question I wanted to ask you pertains to sewer while we’re on the subject.
Mayor: You still have the floor
Mr. Gecy: We had a Frazier Engineering was in Hunters Woods on Fairview Road and they placed two monitors. At the last meeting we talked about it. I talked to the guys and we didn’t have the numbers then but you were going to get back with those numbers. Do you have any numbers from that….
Mr. Hawes: I don’t have the specific numbers on that. I believe Public Works has been supplied with those and Joe Carter could probably tell you right off the top of his head. However, he was ill tonight and was unable to make the meeting.
Mr. Gecy: So this is an ongoing study to try to determine the potential capacity that this line can hold – is that what we’re still trying to study.
Mr. Hawes: I would say City Council has made it clear that that’s an important line to keep a watch on so that’s exactly what we’re doing.
Mr. Gecy: Okay, a couple other comments. The grass – go back to Heritage Park . If we’re going to sod all of the amphitheater area which is cool – I mean that’s going to be great – what about the balloon field or the football fields. Let’s call it the football fields – originally they were – the meadow – the pretty meadow – is that going to be seeded – is that seeded already or –
Mr. Hawes: It’s going to be seeded within the next week or so. As soon as irrigation. See we had to get water down to the amphitheater and to those fields which meant cutting across the parking lot and you can see it right there. You can see the saw cuts. The water system is coming out most likely tomorrow to begin that water. When the water is out there the irrigation is already laid in the Meadow, as you call it. Where the football and soccer fields are. So the water once it’s there will be in. We did not want to seed it without having irrigation. So we’re going to seed it immediately following the water being tapped in. And that will give it approximately two months for the seeds to take.
Mr. Gecy: Okay, good. I visited over in Cedar Cove today and what we found – there’s still some work to do with that catch basin and the engineers from what I heard that they would report back – they still have some work to do before they sign off on that. But there is a crack in the pipe at the very bottom of that pipe that leads to the other storm drain. So that’s being worked on. And also, they are going to trim back some of those holly’s along the fence line which are grown over into the fences on that line. So that’s good. And I think it’s a good neighborly thing. It’s kind of the way we attacked it as a neighborly thing. And the other – I found another catch basin grown over. And I know this is not our problem but it is a problem because it’s in the City. There’s another catch basin that’s completely covered by now rotted kudzoo but it completely grows over it and it’s behind Chancellor’s Commons. And it also affects the water flow into Cedar Cover from the back side. And the bad part is both of these creeks, this comes from West Circle where the headwaters under West Circle cuts through the back of Chancellor’s Park to Chancellor’s Commons and it comes off the back of Chancellor’s Commons and there’s this catch basin that’s not working. You can see where water goes right through it. It doesn’t hold water so we started the process of looking at DHEC to look at that.
Mr. Hawes: That’s an appropriate process
Mr. Gecy: That’s right - And I’m just mentioning it because it’s something that’s effected. What the idea is perhaps all the way into Poinsettia this same creek creates problems at Carl Bailey’s house and on past that and that road even flooded right there one time, years ago. These two catch basins seem to be not working properly and that’s I think maybe we could have some progress on that whole flow – to hold a heavy rain back long enough for it not to flood these properties. I think that’s a good community effort on CVS to work with us and then we’ll work on the other aspect through DHEC. That’s all I have. Thank you.
Mayor: Okay, thank you. Ms. Lawrence again.
Ms. Lawrence: I just wanted to ask one more thing about the sewer. Is Frazier not checking the pump at the Arbors to make sure that it can actually carry that flow to the Bi-Lo line.
Mr. Hawes: I don’t know that Frazier is doing that.
Ms. Lawrence: But isn’t somebody doing that – wasn’t there some question – that it might not can carry it over there.
Mr. Hawes: There is yes. We want to make sure that it can before we switch it.
Ms. Lawrence: Okay, that was all I had.
Mayor: Okay. Mr. Garrett
Mr. Garrett: On the walk and don’t walk signs down on Fairview Road – are those maintained by the State or the City
Mr. Hawes: They would be state
Mr. Garrett: We need to notify them that we’ve got two out at right across from Sharonview there on Fairview Road and Ruby Tuesday’s. Neither one of them work.
Mr. Hawes: We’ll take care of that.
Mr. Garrett: It probably doesn’t bother anybody but people walking and it’s kind of hard to get across there.
Mayor: So did you walk or didn’t walk
Mr. Garrett: I walked it.
Mr. Hawes: If I could add we did see the installation of the 4-way stop sign on March 2 nd and there are some warning signs as you come up now that identify that they are upcoming.
Mr. Garrett: Have we heard anything on South Main and Richardson
Mr. Hawes: I have not heard a word from that gentleman. I’ve tried to reach him. I will continue to do so.
Mayor: He promised me he would call me back when they had completed that thing and I haven’t heard a word. Whether that will happen or not I don’t know.
Mr. Garrett: And also on S. E. Main Street the dentist office – the new dentist office. We’ve got a water problem there when it rains. It stands and for like weeks at a time after a large rain and it’s a large area – probably as big as this area up here. Can we get somebody to look into that.
Mr. Hawes: We’ve already been working with them on that. Absolutely. We have been working with them.
Mr. Garrett: To no avail.
Mr. Hawes: No I think we will have avail. We’ll take care of that one way – there was an attempt that was not successful in diverting the water the way it needed to so they’re going to revisit that.
Mr. Garrett: Okay, that’s all I’ve got.
Mayor: Thank you. Mr. Larson
Mr. Larson: Mr. Hawes when you were talking about the grand entrance to the Cultural Center – is that – is the front where the doors are or is the front the back of the stage end of the building.
Mr. Hawes: The grand entrance as envisioned would be what is the back of the building now facing City Park .
Mr. Larson: Okay, so that’s actually now considered the back instead of the front. And will the stage still be on that end of the building.
Mr. Hawes: The stage isn’t going anywhere. It’s going to stay the way it is. Without having a map in front of me right now to describe to you how some of these things are envisioned – that’s why we’re going to do a master plan and be able to lay it all out and have some prices to go along with what we lay out. It’s in its infancy right now. But, we’ll have a real fine building when it’s done.
Mr. Larson: Well the Kauffman concert the other Saturday – I thought it was a huge success and it was so nice to see that building filled with 600-700 people and being put to a good use. So hopefully this will move forward. And also I was going to ask you a question about the streetscape progress.
Mr. Hawes: The streetscape is still hanging in the able arms of Duke Power. It’s an issue with regard to their three phase and how we’re going to tie into that. We’re working with them, as a matter of fact we have a meeting with them tomorrow with Tony Kellett and that will be one of the points of discussion. We want to get back to work in taking those lines down.
Mr. Larson: Is that why the trenches are being cut in the sidewalks.
Mr. Hawes: Correct. The trenches have been cut. Portions of the sidewalk have been removed in anticipation. However, we had to stop the work until we could determine exactly what the technique was to be used to bring the lines from underground back up to the three ways at the corner of College and N. E. Main.
Mr. Larson: Is that Duke’s responsibility to –
Mr. Hawes: They have to tell us how they want to do it and they have to clearly – they haven’t made it clear as to what they want to do at this point. We have employed an electrical consultant to work with them for that purpose.
Mayor: Why did they not bring this up as an issue in the initial planning stages. Why do we get to this point and then they bring this up and we have to stop.
Mr. Hawes: That’s a question I’ve been asking
Mayor: And their response.
Mr. Hawes: Duke Powers?
Mayor: Yeah – was that their response – we’re Duke Power
Mr. Hawes: To a degree. I don’t think they put a whole lot of effort into it at all until the plans were completed and when they saw the plans they said – oh well now we’ve got to figure out how we’re going to do this. So it’s the way it ended up.
Mayor: It looks like we could have started before Christmas after all. Mr. Zitricki
Mr. Zitricki: How is that going to affect our progression to get this completed.
Mr. Hawes: It’s probably held us up a couple to three weeks
Mr. Zitricki: For now, but to get this analysis done – what’s it going to take to get the lines moved. That could take months,.
Mr. Hawes: I couldn’t say. I could not say. I’m meeting with Duke Power tomorrow as a matter of fact, so I could not tell you until I speak with Mr. Kellett exactly what the prognosis is – I would expect it wouldn’t be much longer. I mean we’ve got the conduit in the back yard ready to go. It’s been there for about 3 weeks so we’re ready to go.
Mr. Zitricki: Well could you send an update once you get the information from Duke Power so we know what’s taking place.
Mr. Hawes: Certainly
Mr. Zitricki: Thank you.
Mayor: Okay, anyone else. All right, thank you councilmembers.
ORDINANCES • GO Bond – Street Resurfacing – 2 nd Reading Mayor: Next item on the Agenda is Ordinances. Mr. Hawes tell us about the GO Bond.
Mr. Hawes: Yes sir, Mayor and Council – this is second reading of the street resurfacing bond. The monies from the bond would be used to resurface the priority list streets that you have in front of you. Just for reference sake we have actually taken the State roads or streets out of this proposal. City Council could certainly put them back in but we believe we may be able to work with the State to address their needs in an efficient and equitable manner. What we have basically is all of the roads of the list can be paved if there is no full depth patching for $297,000. Now that’s unrealistic because we are going to have to have a good bit of full depth patching. The longer the roads go the more the full depth patching will be required. SO I think there’s an imperative here that we get on this as quickly as possible or the price will keep going up. That’s one of the reasons this is being done in an all encompassing bond. The bond will produce $750,000 approximately, to be used on the priority streets and of course on the fire station improvements, which were also part of it. And this will take care of virtually all the streets on the list. There are some streets that may not be covered in the $750,000 that will be covered with the participation of the City with the Legislative Delegation Transportation Committee Program, that we feel that we can get virtually all of these streets that are not highlighted in this fiscal year, I mean in this calendar year with the two programs. With our bonding and with the CTC Funding.
Mayor: Okay, well let’s back up to the state roads for just a minute. Back in January when we first started talking about resurfacing all of these streets and about the bond issue and that sort of thing – we hadn’t brought up the bond issue at that point but we were talking about ways to do it. I asked that we do a survey, just like we did the City streets of the state roads in the City that needed resurfacing or repairing and then I asked that those be prioritized just like our City streets and I asked that we get in touch with the folks at DOT and our state legislators if necessary, whatever, to try to bring pressure to bear for them to do their part. Have we made any progress with that,.
Mr. Hawes: We’ve ridden all the roads. All the state roads have been ridden and they are in the process of being prioritized by Public Works.
Mayor: So we’ll get that list when they’re prioritized. And then what sort of concerted effort do we plan to put forth to try to get the state
Mr. Hawes: I believe it would go along the lines of what you suggested. Getting the DOT, sitting down with them, identifying the fact that these state roads have been neglected by the state for many a year and working with our state legislators to perhaps direct some state funding toward that end. Okay well we’ve got to do that because the majority of the streets in the City are state roads and we’ve got to get them to do their part if we do our part and then the feeder roads are damaged – we’re not going to accomplish a lot. We’re still going to have problems. All right well I’ll let others go before I ask other questions. Anyone have any questions or comments.
Mr. Gecy: Do we need a motion
Mayor: Thank you very much – we need a motion before we can talk about this. Would somebody like to make a motion. I just had to ask that question I couldn’t wait. That’s a different subject actually. Would you like to make a motion Mr. Gecy
Mr. Gecy: I didn’t say that.
Mayor: Would anyone like to make a motion.
Mr. Larson: I’ll make a motion – I make a motion we talk about the paving –
Mayor: I’m sorry Mr. Larson but that’s really not the way it works – is there any specific action that you’d like to make a motion and then we can talk about it
Mr. Larson: I make a motion that we move forward on this paving project
Mayor: So would your motion be to issue GO Bond for the plan
Mr. Larson: Right, yeah – Mr. Holmes are you going to help me out or not.
Mr. Holmes: I would just ask you to move to adopt the proposed ordinance as before you to issue the general obligation bonds in the amount of $800,000.
Mr. Larson: I would move that
Mayor: Is that what you said
Mr. Larson: Yes
Mayor: I thought that’s what you said – all right do I hear a second
Mr. Bridges: Second
Mayor: Mr. Bridges seconds. Now discussion. Would anyone like to discuss. Mr. Gecy
Mr. Gecy: How do you all feel up here on council about neglecting paving the state roads regardless of what the state does. I mean these people live on these streets as citizens of Simpsonville and their property tax – and I think it’s a tax – isn’t it a tax Russ, Mr. Hawes – it’s a tax that they pay – property tax to expect services and part of the services I feel is road paving.
Mr. Hawes: They also pay a $15 road fee to Greenville County which we get a less than fair share.
Mr. Gecy: We have got some money from them but we’ve been diverting that upkeep to doing the downtown streetscape so we’ve been getting that money but we haven’t been spending it on paving – so be honest with me on that. Isn’t that true.
Mr. Hawes: We did one year.
Mr. Gecy: That’s right – okay – but what I’m saying is the people that have state – live on state roads are being somehow punished. They’re not getting their road paved and they’re still paying taxes – just because they’re on a state road. I wouldn’t be adverse if the state’s not going to help us – and this has been going on for a couple of years – there’s a few streets on here that really need to be paved – so are we never going to pave them if the state never helps us. They’re crying now.
Mr. Hawes: Would you like a clarification of what’s sitting before you here.
Mr. Gecy: I’d like one
Mr. Hawes: All right. This identifies the state roads and separates them out because the Mayor had mentioned that previously. If this bond issuance is done it’s up to City Council as to which roads are paved. If City Council decides the yellow highlighted roads need to be resurfaced because the state isn’t going to ever get to them then they can certainly be included in the priority list right where they sit,.
Mr. Gecy: Well that’s exactly what I was trying to infer that we need to do that or consider that – and council consider that because those people need their roads paved as well.
Mr. Hawes: But the thought process here was let’s not commit to doing those until we see if the state might be able to assist or take up their burden.
Mr. Gecy: Well this list is 3 years old
Mr. Hawes: But they’re still the same roads they were
Mr. Gecy: We know which ones have been state roads all the time. Hopefully the state department is going to be doing better and maybe they will come around but I’d like to see us you know get a good commitment one way or the other after all this time. And maybe pave some of these roads out of good faith. Maybe the thing would be to find the ones that are the worst and maybe even just do the absolute worst. But see Davenport is a – Davenport ’s in orange on this and Davenport ’s not included in this cause – part of it’s a state road but mostly because Davenport is so bad it needs to be widened.
Mr. Hawes: It needs to be rebuilt, re-engineered.
Mr. Gecy: Now at the beginning of this is there a figure that includes all those even the colored ones.
Mr. Hawes: Not at this point.
Mr. Gecy: So if we were going to do Davenport along with everything else – have you got any ballpark figure what that would cost.
Mr. Hawes: I really don’t because Mr. Carter reports that Davenport needs to be widened and basically reconstructed. I feel it would not be worth resurfacing with the size and condition of the shoulder and with it’s current width. I would be glad to get an estimate on this project. It would need a separate contract due to the complexity of the construction needed.
Mr. Gecy: Including that little bridge area down at the bottom of the hill.
Mr. Hawes: Certainly
Mr. Gecy: That needs to be done no matter what we do.
Mr. Hawes: It would be a separate project yes
Mayor: And Davenport is part state and part county – part of Davenport is county road. There’s no city portion of Davenport
Mr. Gecy: I thought it was from Calvary Church on down to
Mr. Hawes: I think it’s all three.
Mr. Gecy: The state portion at the Church is right at the church and then it becomes a city road from there on down. I think but you’ve been around longer than I have – I’d have to defer to that. I guess getting back to it if we’re going to approve this the list that we have in front of us – the choice we have to make tonight is the list we have in front of us – if we take all the yellow streets out which is Trade, Eastview Drive, Aster Dr., Davenport, Fernwood, Woodside, Jones Ave and W. Curtis and some not the whole streets, but if we took all of those out how much is that going to cost us to pave those streets.
Mr. Hawes: I can only give you estimates but the remainder of the streets less the ones you just mentioned with a very conservative estimate – in other words an estimate that is probably on the high side – because we actually took the high range so we’re not going to undercut ourselves – would be approximately $1,000,053.
Mr. Gecy: And that’s doing all the deep patching necessary
Mr. Hawes: Correct – heavy deep patching and it may not require all that.
Mr. Gecy: Now this would fix those roads that what’s the phrase you were using alligatoring or gator backing.
Mr. Hawes: Correct – what it would allow us to do is to take $175,000 per year going forward and stay ahead of the curve. $75,000 would be the debt that would be paid on the bond on a yearly basis over 15 years and $100,000 would be the city’s match with the Legislative Delegation Transportation Committee that $100,000 match. So you would have the $100,000 dedicated to paving on a yearly basis with the City Council’s approval and the $75,000 that you would be encumbering with the bonds. So for $175,000 per year going forward you would then be at the top of the curve and be able to take on the deteriorating roads as they deteriorate. Well that’s a good plan as long as we don’t decide some time in the future not to take that $175,000 and do something else with it. We need to get on that track. We need to promise ourselves if we borrow that money to get on that track and keep up with it. Like the police cars. We get behind on police cars – your six behind one year and then you’re 10 behind the next year if you don’t keep up. And you understand that. I guess our decision here tonight is we don’t really know how much it’s going to cost us is the way I look at it. Because we don’t know how deep of patches we’re going to have to do. Worst case scenario is $1,000,053.
Mr. Hawes: To take a project of this size and say it’s going to be exactly a set amount – it’s very difficult. What we tried to do is plan for the amount that would be appropriate for the project.
Mr. Gecy: So if we approve $800,000, obviously if every road needed the attention to get to a million three – if every one had to have the estimate for the deep – you know – let’s just say worst case scenario. And we’re only going to borrow $800,000 – tell me which one on this list isn’t going to get done.
Mr. Hawes: Well we get another $200,000 through the LTDC allocations.
Mr. Gecy: That’s with the matching
Mr. Hawes: Yes. I think the City Council’s intent at the retreat was that they would participate in that process this year and that they would set aside that funding so there’s you’re million dollars.
Mr. Gecy: Well I’m in favor of paving the streets.
Mayor: Okay – Ms. Lawrence
Ms. Lawrence: Did I understand you correctly that you think we can get some help from the state on the state streets.
Mr. Hawes: You may be inferring that I think that. I think it’s worthy of our attempting to solicit help from the state be it through the CTC on a separate allocation or be it through some other allocation in the budgeting process with regard to DOT direct funding of maintenance projects.
Ms. Lawrence: See because, I know everybody wants to live on a nice street but what I’m seeing is the main travel streets are the ones that are state streets and some of them are bad.
Mayor: They are and – well I’m going to wait go ahead
Ms. Lawrence: No you go ahead because I’m done.
Mayor: Well I just wanted to respond to that because I’m the one that’s talking about these state streets and let me tell you I appreciate what you said that the next payers should expect services for the tax money they pay us but they should also expect service from the tax money they pay the state and the state is not stepping up. We need to make sure they step up. I want to see us make a – I’m not talking just about a phone call to Garry Smith or a phone call to Eric Beddingfield or a phone call to whoever. I’m talking about a concerted, genuine, perhaps even involving our good attorney here – and demand that the state do what they’re obligated to do by the constitution of this state and that’s to take care of these state roads. Because we’ve made the phone calls. I can tell you I’ve made phone calls, I’ve groveled for years and I always get the well later, later and we haven’t gotten it so I want us to draw a line in the sand and make sure that we’re getting for our state tax dollars what the state is obligated to do before we even talk about it. And I can assure you that if we start talking about doing it if the state doesn’t do it. I mean if that gets out I can guarantee you they’re not going to do a thing because they’ll happily, gladly let us resurface their streets and rebuild Davenport Road . Davenport has needed rebuilding for years and years. But that’s a huge project and certainly that’s one that the state needs to step up to and take charge of. That’s why I don’t think ought to even consider that. We can – we can pave them. We can solve every problem in this City by spending money and that’s what we’re doing here. We keep talking about spending more money – we’re going to spend money to do all this street paving, we’re going to spend money to take care of all our sewer problems. We’re going to do all these things but it’s going to take more and more money. That brings me to the point that I brought up last time. I asked that at this meeting you bring me the numbers showing how issuing this bond will affect our overall budget. How it will affect our ceiling, our bonding capacity ceiling, how it will affect our cash flow. In other words, how much will the annual payments be and where is that money coming from. Do you have that for me.
Mr. Hawes: Yes sir. The annual payments will be $75,000 per year – that is not a large part of our budget – 1%
Mayor: For how many years
Mr. Hawes: It’s a 15 year issuance – 15 year term. With regard to the borrowing capacity our tax base is $45,800,851 – 8% of that is $3,664,068. Our current GO Bonds are 1.875 million dollars so that leaves us about 40% of our capacity.
Mayor: Is that before reassessment or after
Mr. Hawes: This is before reassessment – we’ll have a huge – we expect a large increase in the 8% when we have reassessment which will occur this year.
Mayor: But that’s todays dollars you’re talking about – that we’ve only used 60% of our bonding capacity.
Mr. Hawes: That is correct – so we have 40% left. With the 2007 – well we have an April payment of $120,000 on bonds – so that brings the borrowing capacity to 1.909 million as of April 30 th . When we issue this GO that would take $800,000 off of that so our net borrowing capacity after issuance is 1.109 million dollars. And then we have reassessment coming.
Mayor: And what’s the amount of this issuance again – I apologize
Mr. Hawes: $800,000
Mayor: And that’s $75,000 a year for 15 years and includes interest
Mr. Hawes: Correct
Mayor: Apparently because of our great bond rating
Mr. Hawes: It’s a very strong statement to our bond rating.
Mayor: Quick math in my head says that 15 years at $75,000 is
Mr. Hawes: Remember we’re a municipality so we get tax exempt and we’re also looking at a 4% bond rate.
Mayor: Okay. And your comfortable with that
Mr. Hawes: Absolutely
Mayor: You’re not going to come to us and say we need to raise taxes because we issued this bond.
Mr. Hawes: If I come to you about raising taxes it will be something separate. I don’t plan on that
Mayor: Separate is a good word to use.
Mr. Hawes: I don’t plan on that.
Mayor: All right. Mr. Gecy
Mr. Gecy: Let me go back just one more - Mr. Mayor you made a good point about that in your concern about borrowing more money but in our retreat if you’ll remember I want to do this paving out of money that we had that we paid ourselves back from the Heritage Park money and I did not want to borrow money to pave. I wanted to use money that we already had and if you’ll remember the vote went 4-3 to almost spend money that we had – that the taxpayers had already paid taxes on and then we had in our hands and still do have in our hands. I’m in favor of getting the street paving done – you’re looking at me like you don’t remember that conversation
Mr. Hawes: No I found it interesting that you said they’ve already paid taxes on – this way the future tax payers are paying for the roads that are being taken care of right now so the ones that are sitting out there right now are not having to pay as much,.
Mr. Gecy: Well it can be looked at either way but this amount of money – what we have to decide is borrow more money – go into debt a little further – I know you brought that up as an answer to it – on the other hand we have this fund balance that has been greatly increased by I called it a windfall – it was a nice little chunk of money for us to get back that we already paid in to do work at Heritage Park. Paid ourselves back – so we have to make a decision – do we use money that’s in a savings account to pave roads or do we borrow more money. So that’s the question that we have before us – which is the wisest to do. We have money here and we have the potential to borrow money here and I guess the answer is it’s better to borrow money if we get such good interest rates and then again we’re taking the risk of putting our City in debt. For 15 years your taxpayers will be in debt to pay for these roads. Is it worth going into debt over.
Mayor: But that money is not found money – that was money that was shifted from one account to another account
Mr. Gecy: But it’s still there
Mayor: There was a great deal of concern expressed during our last budget process last year about our fund balance and by shifting this from there back into the general fund we have met our fund balance obligations and the water is smooth – so you’re talking about spending that money again and it will put us right back where we were. So that’s – I respectfully disagree with your comment that that’s found money.
Mr. Gecy: Well when you spend money to help somebody out and they pay you back then that’s money that you did without. We suffered, we didn’t pave roads, whatever we didn’t do with that money we’ve got it back in our pockets. The first thing we did with it was we put money into a fund balance to build up our fund balance that never was 20% - now it is 20%. We’re all happy about that but it wasn’t 20% last year when I was arguing that we needed to put money into the bank and try to have a fund balance built up – everybody was fighting me we don’t need to do that – I’d rather have good credit than money in the bank you said. Did you not say that Mr. Mayor
Mayor: I probably did say something like that
Mr. Gecy: But now you’re telling me that I’m arguing a different way but you’re arguing out of both sides over this issue because
Mayor: No I’m not. I’m just once again trying to explain to you that that is not found money.
Mr. Gecy: But it’s still money that became a viable part of that balance now. That’s all a comment. It’s just a decision to make – out of our savings do we pay or do we borrow money and put everybody into debt.
Mayor: Fund balance is not a savings. A fund balance is not in a savings account. You know we talked about that last year – let’s not go back there again.
Mr. Gecy: A million dollar check – a $900,000 check came into our City and it got put somewhere
Mayor: It moved from one account to another account is what it did. Thank you though for your comments.
Mr. Gecy: Well I appreciate it.
Mayor: Anyone else. All right, well this is second and final reading. I’ll remind council of that. Are you sure you don’t have any more comments.
Ms. Lawrence: Yeah I just thought of one. I mean this order is it set in stone. This phase one two and three
Mr. Hawes: No nothing is set in stone
Mr. Holmes: Ms. Lawrence the motion on the table is to approve the issuance of the bond it does not include prioritizing the roads so that is something you can do as a part of this to amend the motion to make it that way – or do it by separate motion. But that’s not part of the motion currently
Mayor: Well I think it’s good to talk about these things – why go on and borrow money
Ms. Lawrence: I may not want to borrow it if this is not
Mayor: Well let me ask a question about this list – is this the new reiteration of the three year old list that we had before – I mean I had asked that we revisit this – reprioritize with people who are totally disassociated with the politics and all of that – so is that that list.
Mr. Hawes: Every road was ridden by Public Works staff. Public Works Director personally determined if they still warranted prioritization where they were and it is his strong opinion that these roads taken as a whole are the worst roads in the City with regard to the deterioration of the structure of the road and the need for resurfacing.
Mayor: Okay, well I feel a little bit guilty because I notice Dorian has now dropped down.
Mr. Hawes: But they’ll all be taken care of in one big chunk so…..Mr. Gecy
Mr. Gecy: I’d like to ask Mr. Larson if he would consider changing his motion to ask that the list that we have in front of us be in fact the priority list and name the streets in the motion so we get that on the record. Would you consider that.
Mr. Larson: I don’t – Mr. Holmes if I understand what you’re saying is the priority list really has nothing to do with the vote on the bond issue.
Mr. Holmes: No I’m just simply saying that the motion that you’re currently debating is on the GO Bond. If you want to approve the priority list then you need to amend the motion to include that priority list. I was trying to respond to Ms. Lawrence’s question about whether or not it was set in stone. As your motion currently exists it is not so if you want to set it in stone now would be the time to do it.
Mr. Larson: In your opinion would there be any benefit to sitting it in stone rather than leaving some variability in what roads to select as first
Mayor: Well the first issue that flies – excuse me for interrupting but the first issue I see that flies in my face is we have those state roads listed on here and you know how I feel about that.
Mr. Gecy: Yeah but I think we’re talking about the roads that aren’t state – we need to take those out.
Mr. Garrett: If we’re going to make a motion to amend the motion will you so amend it that we eliminate all state roads until all avenues are sought to get the state to pave them. I cannot support it if we’re going to pave state roads.
Mr. Gecy: I think we agreed to take those out.
Mayor: You can make a motion to amend the motion about anything you want to.
Mr. Garrett: Well Mr. Larson had the motion on the floor
Mayor: I know but you can amend his motion – you can make a motion to amend his motion and then we’ll all decide whether we agree or not.
Mr. Garrett: So I’d like to make a motion that we eliminate all state roads from this list
Mayor: Do I hear a second
Ms. Lawrence: Second
Mayor: Any discussion – all right that was easy – call for the vote. All in favor signify by saying Aye (AYE) opposed No. Aye’s have it we now have an amended motion on the floor. Any further discussion of the amended motion or any further amendments to the amended motion
Mr. Gecy: Now Mr. Mayor what I would like to do then is just obligate ourselves for the sake of the citizens to obligate ourselves that this is our priority list and I would like to make a motion that we accept all the roads in the city on this list in the priority that it is and we will certainly publish this list – but let’s add that to the motion
Ms. Lawrence: I’ll second it.
Mayor: I have a motion and a second. Any discussion.
Mr. Hawes: Are you including the state or not
Mr. Gecy: No we’ve already taken those out – just the city streets.
Mayor: Okay any discussion. All right I just want to ask before I call for the vote and I wish Joe Carter was here but I’m sure you’ve talked with him. How comfortable are you with this list. I mean is this the priority list based upon their opinion.
Mr. Hawes: Based upon Joe Carter’s and staffs opinion at Public Works this is the priority list.
Mayor: This wasn’t a hear this is a preliminary list and we’ll look a little bit harder later or anything – this they believe in it
Mr. Hawes: No they believe in it – it wouldn’t have been supplied to you if it was any other way.
Mayor: All right any other discussion. All right hearing none I’ll call for the vote to amend the motion. Man I’m getting lost. This is an amendment to the amended motion – this is the amendment to use this list – does everybody understand that. So I’ll call for the vote to amend the motion to add this list as a priority to the motion. All in favor signify by saying Aye (AYE) opposed No. All right so now we have a real long motion that includes I think all of you remember everything that we included here – Mr. Attorney you want to read it back to us.
Mr. Holmes: As I understand the motion – the motion is to approve the ordinance to issue $800,000 in General Obligation Bonds and that the list of city roads, not state roads listed in order in the priority they’re listed on the list you have in front of you is the list the city is supposed to follow to pave new roads.
Mayor: Very well put
Mr. Hawes: The only thing that I would want to add for the record is that we’re still talking about doing those fire station improvements, a small amount. The three fire station needs with paving.
Mayor: What parking lots or something – okay
Mr. Hawes: Just resurfacing the parking
Mayor: All right is everybody clear
Mr. Hawes: It’s not on the list does it need to be –
Mayor: Why wouldn’t it if we’re going to spend money on it. So do we need to amend the motion to add – you going to have enough money to do all of that
Mr. Hawes: That’s the intent
Mayor: That wasn’t the question
Mr. Gecy: Is there a fear that a street will drop off because of that.
Mr. Hawes: I couldn’t say – it was stated by City Council at the retreat that that would be one of the uses of the bonds.
Mayor: All right – and are you will to say that there should be enough to do all that
Mr. Hawes: I’m hopeful that there will be enough
Ms. Lawrence: No not hopeful
Mr. Hawes: I don’t have bids in and we can’t bid until we have the money
Mayor: Price of asphalt goes up and down with the price of oil
Mr. Hawes: I will say that the amount of construction in articles recently that construction is dropping precipitously because SCDOT is doing no contracts anywhere and the price of asphalt just because of supply and demand is this area is actually steady or dropping rather than increasing compared to last year.
Mayor: Okay – so that caveat stands. All right, any further discussion – you look like you want to discuss it some more.
Ms. Lawrence: To amend the motion – that’s what I was going to do
Mayor: Do we need to amend the motion Mr. Attorney.
Mr. Holmes: If you want to include the paving of those fire stations yes.
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