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| The following summary minutes have not been approved by Simpsonville City Council. An official copy of the minutes will be available after adopted by City Council at City Hall 118 NE Main St. Simpsonville. Pursuant to the Freedom of Information Act, notice of this meeting date, time, place and Agenda was posted on the bulletin board at City Hall and faxed to the newspapers, radio stations, television stations and any concerned citizens. |
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SIMPSONVILLE CITY COUNCIL WORKSHIP AND SPECIAL VOTING SESSION April, 22, 2008 6:30 p.m. City Council Chambers- 118 N.E. Main St .
CALL TO ORDER: Mayor: Call the April workshop and special voting session of Simpsonville City Council to order. Mrs. Bridgeman will you call the roll for us please?
ROLL CALL: Councilmember Bridges: Here Councilmember Garrett: Here Councilmember Sanders: Here Councilmember Bagwell: Here Councilmember Curtis: Here Councilmember Larson: Here Mayor Waldrop: Here
INVOCATION: Mayor: Is there any one here would like to ask blessings upon this meeting in your own personal way? All right, Councilmember Curtis would you ask blessings upon this meeting in your own personal way?
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE: Mayor: Please join us in the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag.
CITIZEN COMMENTS Mayor: All right this is a portion of our meeting where we allow citizen comments. For those of you that may have not been here before, we have a couple of little rules. If you called ahead and asked to be placed on the agenda, we will give you four minutes to talk to us and this is a workshop meeting so we will interact with you. If you fuss at us, we can fuss back and if you have a question we will try to answer it or duck it or something. Those who signed up when you came in the door, we will give you two minutes, but we will be pretty generous with that. First, we’re going to call those who asked to be placed on the agenda-Linda Curtis. Ms. Curtis, if you will give your address for the record your four minutes will begin.
Ms. Curtis: Residence: 109 Willow Branch Drive . Business: 421 North Main Street
Mayor: Thank You
Ms. Curtis: Did not believe I would be here to say this, thank you, thank you, thank you, job well done. The train has not parked in front of our business in over two weeks. I don’t know what threats you made, don’t know if there’s any dead bodies that haven’t been uncovered yet but whatever it was so far it has worked. It took a little while to get there, they were still stopping but in the last two weeks I am happy to report no train in front of building so deepest gratitude, I appreciate it. I do have one request. We have a biannual or semiannual sidewalk sale every year. We do it in May and in October and our May is coming up in our new location and we would like permission to hang a banner on the poles that you have on the city right of way directly across from our building for that one week period April 28 th through May 3 rd announcing the sidewalk sale, the days and the time.
Mayor: Ok well first, let me respond to your first comment. Let me tell you what we did.
Ms. Curtis: There are dead bodies?
Mayor: No, well almost. We told the folks at the railroad that there was this lady who was coming up here and we feared for our lives because she kept coming and that if they didn’t get it fixed, I was going to bring her down there to his office and let him meet her.
Ms. Curtis: There you go
Mayor: There you go. Thank you. Secondly, I don’t think it’s appropriate for us to pass on a sign of variance in our sign ordinance for an individual here, wouldn’t the board of zoning appeals need to do that?
Mr. Holmes: Well on any type of permanent sign, that is correct.
Mayor: Well I think she’s asking for a temporary sign.
Mr. Holmes: Then she has to come to City Hall and make an application for that temporary sign.
Ms. Curtis: Well I did that a couple of weeks ago and wanted to pay the $25, when I talk to the lady she said I would need permission before I could do that.
Mayor: No one has ever asked us for permission to do that before.
Ms. Curtis: Well I’m just a bag of firsts, ya know.
Mayor: Well you’re very enlightening. We are learning a lot from you. You know, I tell you, you go back and buy your permit and we will get word to her that you don’t need to come to us unless you know something that we don’t know and we have a City Attorney here that explain things we don’t know.
Mr. Holmes: I don’t know what the sign is, but it has to comply with the city ordinance. If it does then a permit has to be issued and if it doesn’t and there’s something different about the sign then it would have to go through a board of zoning appeals to allow a variance.
Ms Curtis: It meets with the ordinates other than it would be placed on the city right away not on my property.
Mr. Holmes: That’s the problem
Mayor: So she needs permission to place it?
Mr. Holmes: Well the city doesn’t grant anybody permission to put signs on city right of way. The city has a… you have to adopt some of the ordinances to change your limit.
Ms. Curtis: Well I understand that but let me also ask the question, then why is the music festival that is privately funded and sponsored, then why are they allowed to hang a banner there?
Mayor: Where specifically are you talking about?
Ms. Curtis: I’m talking about right, you know there’s Saunder’s office supply and there’s Healing Hands and it’s that strip of land beside Healing Hands. There’s the metal structure where signs are hung on.
Mayor: Are you talking about the old car lot there?
Ms. Curtis: No, no, no it’s on further down.
Mayor: You’re talking about on the other side with the railroad
Ms. Curtis: Yes, across the railroad tracks with my building
Mayor: I think that’s railroad right of way, not city right of way.
Mr. Hawes: I’m not aware that’s city right of way
Mayor: If you check with city hall tomorrow, our city administrator will get all the facts on this, right. And you call him in the morning, give him to late morning so he can do his research and he will have an answer for you.
Ms. Curtis: I was just told that it was city right of way, I wasn’t sure, but I know that the music festival advertised there. I wouldn’t think you’d have a sign ordinance there.
Mayor: I’ve seen those signs.
Mr. Hawes: My understanding is that the recreation department had an agreement with the property owner there that it is not city right of way and the property owner allows the recreation department to advertise on the property.
Mr. Curtis: Who’s the property owner?
Mr. Hawes: I’m not sure
Mayor: But he can tell you that in the morning. Mr. Curtis has an answer to all this.
Mr. Curtis: No, I was going to try and clarify what I’ve understood to be said and she’s clarified it quite well.
Mr. Hawes: We will look into that, give me a call tomorrow
Ms. Curtis: Ok, Thank You.
Mayor: Thank you for your nice words. Welcome back anytime
Ms. Curtis: You don’t always hear thank yous and the good stuff that happens and I wanted to make sure that I did let you know. But trust me, if it comes back, you will see me back.
Mayor: I’m going to take you down to his office.
Ms. Curtis: I’ll go
Mayor: All right. Next we have those of you who signed up when you came in. these are two minutes. As long as you’re not repeating yourself, we will listen. First is John Cutler. Cutler or Cutter?
Mr. Cutler: Cutler
Mayor: Cutler- ok. Mr. Cutler, if you will give your address for the record you may begin
Mr. Cutler: John Cutler 3 Roundleaf Ct.
Mayor: Thank you
Mr. Cutler: City council members thank you for taking the time for hearing us all today. A couple points in regards to the Century Plastics that we have here. I was at the meeting a couple weeks ago and the point was made by several council members that we were impeding in his backyard that he was there first. Well if you actually look up in the deed book, you will note in the deed book there was two parcels of property that were residential zoned several months before Mr. Morabito even bought his property. So that negates the entire fact that was given at the last meeting. Neely Forrest was built in 1993. In 1998 he expanded his operations from 1200 square feet to over 80,000 square feet. There is a brush line that has been put in place. Since the past decade there has been several complaints about the facade, about the way it looks and about the way it affects our community. Since then, Mr. Morabito has done absolutely nothing to improve that so what has made us to believe now that he is going to make any changes if we grant him another extra 50,000 square feet and make it a even thinner brush line. The point was made that the brush line was there cannot be guaranteed that it would remain or it would even be improved on, which is a very big concern with us. My next question, actually first question is air permit. He has to have an air permit. He has to at least have one violation with South Carolina DHEC. He has never had to have his water tested or the ground tested. He is in a septic tank. Before the second hearing, I would request on behalf of all the residence of Simpsonville as well as the city council, a full phase one environmental assessment of the entire facility be done before we even do the second reading. For starters, we would like to know what’s in the water, children play in the creek behind it. We would like to know if anything is impeding into that water form the septic tank. We do not know if anything has gone into that water and again he has already had at least one violation. With that, along with Mrs. Freeman, the property that will be up to Mrs. Sullivan’s property that he wants to buy for her sake too. How will this impact her land and her property value? Well we do ask of that. As far as the trucks are concerned, he talked about thirty trucks coming back and forth going to his other facility, we’re not stupid. There’s thirty trucks picking that stuff up, those trucks are going to merely going to come to his new facility now and if he expands his operations, what’s going to stop him in having more trucks come down there in a week. So, my question really comes about is the city council really willing to give him a second approval or a second hearing before a full phase one environment assessment is done?
Mayor: That was the question?
Mr. Cutler: Yes
Mayor: Who wants to answer that? Well I’m going to defer that to our attorney because I believe that is not something that we ordinarily do or be expected to do but surely there is some agency in such a thing. Mr. Holmes? Walk us through that process.
Mr. Holmes: What the city council ability to do is regulate land use regulation and those types of things like air quality and water quality are regulated by South Carolina Department of Health and Environmental Control, the city does not have any control over that. I don’t think it would be appropriate for the city council to require a phase one environmental audit because that’s not in the land use regulation. The question is if the use of the land appropriate, if there is some damage to the environment as a result of that use, then there is other agencies that would have to look into that matter that the city would not have the authority to look into.
Mayor: Ok, so what we consider strictly about the zoning about the area and how it fits with our plan, our community, that’s all we really decide.
Mr. Cutler: As far as the brush line that I had made mention, it was asked that the brush line would stay the same or improve, I believe you had even said that you cannot guarantee that. As far as that is concerned. He came up here high and righteous as a good neighbor with complaints over the past decade, he has not made a single adjustment or anything to improve the brush line. What is to make us believe now that is going to suit any of the neighborhoods needs?
Mayor: Do you have an answer for that Mr. Dyrhaug? Please approach the microphone.
Mr. Dyrhaug: As far as the existing vegetation there, our code does require for an OPEC screen between his property and the neighboring residential property. So he can achieve that through a combination of keeping what’s there existing and providing supplemental plantings if needed or he can plant a whole new screen of trees, so he has some options to work with but the point it that our code does require an OPEC screen. So whether he accomplishes that by keeping the trees that are already there or planting new trees it will be there.
Mayor: So we are assured that there will be something there to screen.
Mr. Dyrhaug: Yes if he does any land developing there, that will be requirement that we will review for.
Mayor: Yes, Mr. Curtis
Mr. Curtis: Mr. Cutler, do you realize and I want to make sure you understand that we do not annex this property into the city, we have absolutely no control over anything that goes on at that property. The situation that exists now will continue to exist and we will have no control over screening, he does not have to maintain screening currently under the county I don’t believe. The screening requirements that we are referring to are a city ordinance without him being apart of that city he doesn’t fall under that ordinance. There is absolutely nothing we can do to regulate the business or the way he carries out his business unless he is annexed into the city. Do you understand that?
Mr. Cutler: I do understand that aspect and I guess coming back to the part where you can’t make them do a phase one environment study, are you familiar with the scrubbers that the system goes through that it is planned at all. Are you aware that he has had his scrubbers down numerous times?
Mr. Curtis: I’m not
Mr. Cutler: When his scrubbers are to scrub the chemicals to what’s released in the air is not hazardous or toxic. He has admitted openly that he has had his scrubbers down and has had at least one violation so I can appreciate the city being able to enforce the brush line but as far as an environmental impact study is concerned and tapping into our city water with his septic tank already in the ground, it just raises a lot of suspicion to the neighbors in the area what exactly is going on. If he has already had them with this and he has never had anything else tested, wouldn’t that raise some suspicion to you what exactly is in the water and septic tank in the ground as far as pollutants.
Mr. Curtis: I understand what you’re saying. What I don’t follow is how you feel that us taking our hands off of it will improve your situation. If he has already had a violation with DHEC, he apparently resolved that with DHEC, there is a separate agency that regulates that. What benefit is it up to the residence there for him to have less regulation. Isn’t that what you’re asking for, for him to have less regulation?
Mr. Cutler: That is an excellent point as far as that is concerned. Expanding that actually, my wife will be speaking here shortly. As far as it goes, what kind of impact will this have having an industrial plant in the middle of all residential property especially with the roads already becoming increasing higher in traffic with all of the different subdivisions that have been built down going towards Harrison bridge road making that, expanding that, what kind of impact will that have on our property value?
Mayor: Ms. Bagwell has a response.
Ms. Bagwell: One thing to go back to the last meeting we did talk about talking with the county about expanding some of that road area that we are looking at. The other thing that I’m looking at, Mr. Larson and I volunteered to sit down the residence of the neighborhood and Mr. Morabito, no one has bothered to contact either one of us.
Mr. Cutler: I apologize about not contacting either one of you, Ms. Bagwell or you Mr. Larson. In fact we did set up a meeting at Carolina Fine Foods with Mr. Morabito to sit down and go over everything. He declined. My wife called up there, he did not set anything up with us. We sent a letter out there to him and he never responded and again this is referring back the quote unquote good neighbor that he claims that he is. When he asked us to meet him at Ryan’s prior to that there were only a handful of the residence that were here. Those residences didn’t feel like they could speak on behalf of the entire masses and wanted to set something up more formal. We did that and gave him a weeks notice and he declined.
Ms. Bagwell: And I can appreciate that but looking at that from his stand point too, if he is one man and he is being converged on by a whole neighborhood, you can certainly understand why he might decline at that point, hearing what he had heard at the last meeting. However, again, I’m sure Mr. Larson is still ready to sit down with you all with Mr. Morabito as I am and sit down and see what we can do to help you all resolve some differences and see if we can help keep this smooth if that’s the way it’s going to be. Again Mr. Curtis brought out a great point in that if we don’t annex this property in nothing changes, it doesn’t get better, it possibly gets worse. We have no control. Those loud noises that you hear in the middle of the night that we’ve heard about, we don’t touch it. Our police do not go out there at that point in time because it’s Greenville County . Whereas if it is annex in, if I’m not mistaken Chief Reece, your men would be out there in pretty much no time. So we are looking at this with an open mind, Well say I am, I think I’m hearing that from the other members, we are hearing what you are saying we are also looking at this as a big picture.
Mr. Cutler: And I agree absolutely and I am a small business owner myself and never want to stop anyone from bettering themselves and providing more jobs or anything of that aspect. Just some of the concerns that I have and I can appreciate that now are some of the things that he is in violation now are they being enforced, I’m going to say no. If you look at his track record. In some of the other council member meetings that we’ve been here with some of the other businesses, it seems difficult to get some of these things approved. Not all the time, just some of them at the last meeting we had that we were here. If this is in fact approved and you guys do have your fingers on the trigger so to say with this, we do ask that if it does not meet code that it goes above code with the brush lines and the things of that nature so it is appeasing to the neighborhood so its not just asphalt and sheet metal when you drive buy it. That it has some sort of nice façade on the outside so it’s not such an eye sore in middle of such a nice community in the area.
Ms. Bagwell: And I am going to ask a rhetorical question.
Mr. Cutler: Yes Maim.
Ms. Bagwell: And please forgive me, I don’t mean to sound snide, anyway it’s just a question to ask myself. As a business owner, as a property owner, would you appreciate someone telling you exactly the way your property is supposed to look? And telling you that you have to go above and beyond the other business owners have to do to appease people.
Mr. Cutler: Absolutely. And I have asked myself that question. I own a piece of property that is historical, not only am I going through the city council in Florida but going through this historical board. In doing so I have seen and they have actually requested that it meet city code and go above an additional ten percent of vegetation on the property and that is entirely the city councils opinion because they have the ability to lay out the city how they want it and seem fit so no I do not have a problem with someone telling me that.
Ms. Bagwell: Mr. Holmes, would that be an issue? Can we request of one business owner that we don’t request of another.
Mr. Holmes: No, you have to treat all property owners equal. You have to treat them in accordance of your regulations and if this is a historic district, and I know you all are looking at that now, there are special provisions that the law allows in those districts but not as a general rule.
Mayor: Ok, wow that was the longest two minutes.
Mr. Cutler: Wasn’t it? Thank you for your time
Mayor: Thank you and it was a good interchange. I hope you got some questions answered and we did too. Alright next is apparently your tag team member, Melinda Cultler Melinda we want to know what you got to say but since your husband took so long please don’t repeat information.
Mrs. Cutler: I’m going to keep it general. Ok?
Mayor: Ok
Mrs. Cutler: Here we go guys. Century Plastics issue problem. Century Plastics is not simply asking to be zoned into the city, which would provide them access to city sewer and water, rather they requesting to be zoned as city industrial I-1. The rezoning to industrial I-1 would allow the company to annex 4.3 acres of suburban residential property to add to its existing complex. In accordance to the city of Simpsonville ’s description of zoning for industrial I-1, the location of Century Plastics, which are clearly residential in nature, is a direct violation of the city ordinance. Section 8 Article 11.1 which defines an industrial district as those areas zoned as I-1are characterized by their location on roads that are not residential in nature and which have ready access to arterial roads, which Century Plastics does not. So, I would like to know how you are going to enforce and ordinance that he is clearly already in violation of?
Mayor: Mr. Dyrhaug can answer that quickly I’m sure.
Mr. Dyrhaug: What she read is the character and purpose of the industrial district and this is a situation where we’re reviewing this request in light of what the activity is right now. So, the zoning aspect of this annexation request is to basically keep consistent with the activity that is there and that’s the reason for the zoning aspect of this.
Mayor: You got about 30 seconds left
Mrs. Cutler: Ok, last but not least. Currently, Century Plastics is not currently in compliance with Greenville County District S1 service district ordinance which allows the light industries which in their normal operations would have minimal effect on joining properties. All of these uses permitted in this district shall be conducted in such a manor that no obnoxious odor, fumes, smoke, dust or noise will be admitted beyond the property line of the lot which the use is located. So I obviously understand that the Greenville County is not doing anything, what is the city council going to do to make sure this man complies with the ordinances because we have no problem with him tapping into the sewer, it’s the fact that he wants to rezone residential land that was there before him to this I-1 district that will allow him. He is not under obligation to us to make that a manufacturing facility, he can do whatever he wants once that is going to be rezoned. So I want to know what you all are going to do to put stipulations of what can and cannot be done if you do choose to rezone that land.
Mayor: Well we have code of ordinances that says what he can and can’t do and we have an enforcement staff that takes care of that so we will treat him like we do anyone else when we enforce our codes.
Mrs. Cutler: So what are we supposed to do about the fact that he is already in violation. How can he fall into the Simpsonville ordinance even though it reads that he doesn’t because he doesn’t comply with the requirements to be zoned I-1 under Simpsonville City Ordinance?
Mayor: In relation to emissions. Is that what you’re talking about?
Mrs. Cutler: The area zoned I-1
Mayor: So you’re going back to your former point?
Mrs. Cutler: Exactly.
Mayor: I think Mr. Dyrhaug explained that. The section 8.1 that you refer to.
Mr. Dyrhaug: Those aren’t requirements per se that is an intent that describes that zoning district but they are not requirements
Mrs. Cutler: How can Neely Ferry Road not be zoned? I mean everything around him is residential around him so how is that not a residential in nature road.
Mayor: Because he’s there, that’s why, that’s why it’s not residential in nature.
Mrs. Culter: So you got ninety-five to five percent, then residential wouldn’t be the majority?
Mayor: No that’s not what I am saying at all. He is already there. He is an industry. So the presence is there and the precedence has been set is the way I see it.
Mrs. Culter: Ok
Mayor: Ok Thank you very much. Next is Mr. Mike Papadopoulous. How’d I do?
Mr. Papadopoulous: Very good
Mayor: All right, Thank you. And if you’ll state your name, I mean your address for the record, you may begin your two or twenty minutes.
Mr. Papadopoulous: Ok. 120 Mercer Drive . That’s residential. 514 N.E. Main Street is the business. I wanted to address the council and mayor about our ordinance about the sign and Banner Ordinance. I think that’s something that we need to take a hard look at. From my understanding is that we can put up a banner for 30 days and pay $25. It has to come down for 60 days and then we are allowed to put it back up for another 30 days, which is only four times a year, four months out of the year that we can put up a banner. Really the reason we have to take a look at it is because there is a lot of small business owners out there that there only way to attract customers is that to put a banner out front to advertise a sale, 10% off or maybe it’s a bank that wants to advertise a special rate on their interest rate or their home equity lines, but they can only do that four months out of the year. I understand why the Banner Ordinance was put into place. From what I understand is there were a lot of banners put up that were not appealing and aesthetics is not good to have a lot of banners up and I’m all for that and you guys have done an phenomenal job with the street lights that you have recently put up in the city and the traffic lights that were put up but small business is the lifeline of this community because it employees other people and a small business can become a big business eventually and employ even more people. But the more regulations and more ordinances that we put on small business owners the more we are going to see an exodus of small business owners going to the next town; Ft. Inn, Laurens or Clinton and putting up a business there where maybe thy have less regulation and less ordinances. So I guess my appeal is that we look at the sign and Banner Ordinances and rethink that. There could be other ways, we could put in an ordinance saying we can’t put up a banner that’s not aesthetically pleasing. If somebody goes out there and gets an orange and pink and black banner and wants to spray paint something on there then obviously maybe we can reword the ordinance that states it’s got to be aesthetically pleasing. But to stifle business owner and not allow them to put up a banner but four times a year can make or break that business owner or that business, that’s what I wanted to bring to council.
Mayor: Well, do we have good news for you.
Mr. Papadopoulous: Ok.
Mayor: Because as we speak there is a committee that is taking a look at our entire sign ordinance and we are trying to revisit that and trying to develop something that works for all the business people in town. That’s being driven by the chamber of commerce so I am sure they are looking for good people to be on that committee and we’ve already discussed and met jointly with them. So, if you will contact the chamber of commerce I’m sure they will be happy to include you in those meetings and we are going to really try to allow businesses to promote themselves. And the challenge is allowing you to do that without, as you stated, ruining the character of our city and having signs hang up everywhere. If we all work together, maybe we can find some compromise.
Mr. Papadopoulous: I thank you for that. That would be awesome. I appreciate the time you gave me.
Mayor: Thank you. All right, next is speaking of the committee, Bill Wingate. Perhaps you should introduce yourself to this gentleman, Bill.
Mr. Wingate: We go to church together so.
Mayor: Well there you go. Apparently you don’t ever talk.
Mr. Wingate: Well anyway, I’m Bill Wingate. I got the Wingate Restaurant here at 128 South Main Street . There again I am talking about the Banner Ordinance. What I would like council to consider is that this Freedom Weekend Aloft that you have coming up is to allow small businesses to put up banners for those three days because you got people coming into town and you say that you are bringing them into town for our businesses. Ok, so we need to have a little relief on this Banner Ordinance for these three days while we got new people coming into our town, so we can tell them where our businesses are and what we do. You’re bringing them in and supposedly it’s for businesses in town and I would really appreciate you doing something just for those three days to allow us to put up some small temporary signs or whatever to where we can direct people to our businesses. Not with flashing lights or so on and so forth but just let them know where we are so if they want something to eat or they want to visit a toy store or whatever, they will know that we are there. You’re bring these people in town for us so and we’ve all helped, the restaurants have all helped by collecting that two percent tax to get these people here so we should benefit a little bit from it. So I would really appreciate a little temporary thing if you could do that for us.
Mayor: We want you to benefit a lot from it.
Mr. Bridges: I just want to ask you Mr. Wingate, did you notice any increase in your business over the last weekend?
Mr. Wingate: Yes Sir
Mr. Bridges: Good, we had a big tournament here at the Heritage Park , with the colleges, the small colleges had a tournament, probably five hundred or so people that came in and I think they filled up all the hotels and motels and I’m glad to hear you got some increase in business.
Mr. Wingate: Now a lot of people, like Sunday who came to our business, was the best Sunday that we’ve had here, were from the local churches because we asked people how they found out about the restaurant and so on and so forth because we need to know that. But yes we had a great weekend. With Freedom Weekend Aloft weekend coming up we are hoping for a better one. They are there tonight to have a meeting in our restaurant tonight, the people who are putting this thing on and we really appreciate that and we know that the Freedom Weekend Aloft is helping that. But there again, we need all the help we can get
Mayor: I think we should talk about that between now and then because I think it’s a good idea I can see a big balloon on the top of your restaurant there.
Mr. Wingate: We could do that too. We can put you in there
Mayor: I’m not your advertising guy. I’d look like Santa Clause. Thank You. All right, next is Janet Newman and if you will share your address for the record you may begin.
Ms. Newman: 201 Boxelder Lane .
Mayor: Thank you.
Ms. Newman: I promise I won’t bring up any environmental or anything else. I talked to Mr. Dyrhaug earlier this week. Traffic we are concerned about but my concern is my home value. This is my biggest investment. This was our starter home now it’s become our maybe for a little longer home. My concern not to myself but all of the neighborhood, the neighbors who wont be affected by sight but up the street where if my house devalues then their house devalues. I understand the issue of keeping I-1, which I don’t have concern about. I like the fact that the city could regulate it. What I do ask is can we separate the two issues. If you rezone that I-1, does the residential have to be rezoned? Can we make these two separate issues; can this be a compromise that the City Council can make for us?
Mayor: Tell us about the application, Mr. Dyrhaug, and perhaps you can address that by doing that.
Mr. Dyrhaug: The application of petition that we received is for two properties and for those two properties to be annexed together and zoned together. So, they are tied together as far as the application of petition is concerned.
Mayor: So just so I will understand. The applicant would have to make the decision to split the two. What’s before us is to consider the application before us, am I correct?
Mr. Dyrhaug: Yes. And Mr. Holmes can correct me if I am wrong, but what I believe will have to be done is we need two separate applications that will be considered as two separate dockets and to do it that way to separate them out.
Mr. Holmes: Well that is highly technical, I don’t think that’s necessary, but the applicant, the application that the city now has is that all of it be considered as one parcel and all of it be annexed and given the same zoning, that’s what you got to consider.
Mayor: So that’s what’s before us and we must consider that.
Ms. Newman: But it’s not possible to separate the two issues? I mean it’s not legally possible?
Mayor: Not from our end if I understand correct.
Mr. Holmes: That’s correct
Ms. Newman: How as a citizen would I go about trying to? Would I have to talk to Mr. Morabito? Ok, I will take you both up on your offer and I will be emailing both of you tomorrow. We did as a community go to Carolina Fine Foods and we did sit there for an hour and wait just in case, giving the benefit of the doubt. That’s the biggest concern, most of us do not have an objection to the I-1. We just have the objection cause when I purchased my home, I did check the zoning behind me because I was concerned that there was a plant down the street and I was told that’s residential and most likely will never be turned into anything but residential because of how the City of Simpsonville has it laid out right now. So I guess there is no, just sitting down with Mr. Morabito is our only recourse.
Mayor: As I understand it that’s correct that is the process.
Ms. Newman: Do you know by chance does he own the land he’s asking to rezone or does he just have the option to purchase?
Mayor: Don’t know that. The property owner though has to request
Mr. Holmes: The application had to be made on behalf of owner with the owner’s knowledge and consent. The city doesn’t go do independent research to determine that but for it to be valid it would have to be either the owner or with the owners knowledge and consent.
Mr. Dyrhaug: The application was signed my Mrs. Sullivan, who is the current property owner, or I say who owns it. She is the one who signed the petition that we have that includes that property on it, so she is the present owner of that other parcel. Like this citizen has said he has the option to purchase that.
Mayor: So you’re concerned about your property value and I understand that but I’m sure Mrs. Sullivan is concerned about the sales price of her property too. I’m sure she would be as sad as you are if she would not be able to sell her property and get her value. Ms. Newman: But that’s one person compared to an entire neighborhood, and not just ours. You know, I just recently had my house appraised and one of the comps came from Saddlers Ridge, as well as apart of Westwood. See now this would be a trickle affect through many communities in our area and that is a huge concern with us. If we can’t separate the two issues that are a large concern, I would have to talk to Mrs. Sullivan myself. We can get her as well involved in this. I will be emailing both of you tomorrow.
Mayor: All she would have to do is withdraw her request
Ms. Newman: Wonderful. Thank You.
Mayor: All right, Thank You. All right that concludes our public speaking segment tonight and I hope that everyone feels like they had a full opportunity to express yourself because we sure did go longer than two minutes each.
COUNCIL COMMENTS Mayor: All right, next on the agenda is Old Business and Mr. Dyrhaug you’re up again, you’re earning your money tonight. Well, first as you’re getting at, we are going to have Council Comments. So does Council have any comments?
Mr. Larson: I'm just going to address the folks from Neely Forrest, I appreciate you coming out tonight and I think the way that I feel about the issue is that if they come into the city, we will have more control over them. I think right now with the issues like violations, ect., when you look at all of Greenville County that is a very small business compared to some of the other issues in Greenville County . I think that if they are part of the city, I know with just working with our codes enforcement and our public works and police department that a lot of these issues can be addressed in a more efficient manner if they were apart of the city. So I understand some of your concerns but I think this is the best way to help the city help you guys to address those.
Mayor: Ok, thank you Mr. Larson. Anyone else have any Council Comments? Questions? Concerns? Speeches? All right hearing none as I said before Mr. Dyrhaug, will you tell us about text amendments?
OLD BUSINESS Mr. Dyrhaug: All right. This is to talk about the ordinance TX-2008-02 and this is a text amendment to our design review article. For over a year the Planning Commission and staff have been working on a new design review article and some updated design overlay districts. The planning commission has held a series of workshops and meetings regarding this proposed ordinance and basically this ordinance proposes an entire overall of article seven in the Simpsonville city ordinance. By a vote of six to zero the Planning Commission recommended an approval of this to the council. A couple weeks ago we went through an exercise where I showed you some pictures of what’s in the city now and some pictures of other areas out there and kind of using those to express the intent of what this ordinance is trying to achieve. As I mentioned in the last meeting one of the things that this ordinance does is try to apply some of the emerging themes that are identified in the Simpsonville strategies of the future. These are the ten themes that were identified in this document, and the three that were bolded are those that this ordinance is trying to apply a little more in depth that includes downtown is the place to be, pedestrians have their own realm and good design distinguishes Simpsonville. In that document, Strategies for the Future, several recommendations were identified throughout and these are some of the recommendations that were identified as it relates to commercial growth. It talked about reducing things like curb cuts, putting utilities underground, defining pedestrian friendly streets, putting parking behind buildings, encouraging people to walk and avoiding the strip development that we see in a lot of places across the upstate. It also had recommendations of maximum setbacks in the C-1 zone so that you have zero plot line development where everything is up against the right of way. Also it encourages the city to provide guidelines for massing architectural details and layout in commercial corridors and that is exactly what this ordinance tries to achieve. Our current design regulations include five design overlay districts and it has very simplified and somewhat big standards. Primarily this ordinance prohibits metal and aluminum siding as exterior finishing materials visible from the right of way. This is hard to see for you but this is a map of our current design overlay districts and they are colored in five different colors but we need to refer to that later on when we do have this available to look at. I included in here some samples of some of the current design standards and I wont go through all of them but this for example is our downtown district and this is all of the standards in that overlay district. There is not a lot there and they are very simplified and that’s just a snapshot of what we got. Some of them are so simple, for example here in district three we’ve only got two very generic and big standards. In district four, which is our Fairview Road district and there is four standards and one or two of them are a little more specific but this is just to give you an idea of what we’ve got now in our ordinance. In our new proposed ordinance we’ve done several things, we have done several things. First of all, we have enhanced the purpose in the intense section of the ordinance and the purpose are identified here as insuring the harmony with the aesthetic character of Simpsonville, nourish positive visuals in the city, promote general welfare through compatibility between new and existing developments and finally to promote safety. In conjunction with that and with the standards we are going to get into, we have really enhanced the definition section of this ordinance. It has more definitions and it even has some of the illustrations to some of the definitions that would be maybe hard to understand just by reading the words. The applicability has changed a little bit, what we still do is define the overlay districts as the parcels that are adjacent to the rights of way which are specified here in the ordinance but we have exemptions that we have identified. First of all, we exempt all single family residential zones and uses, we exempt all industrial zones and uses and we also exempt improvements or repairs that do not exceed seventy-five percent of the assessed property value. There are two sets of procedures that are outlined in the new ordinance. The first is the standard procedure, which includes planning commission review on all projects in design overlay district. The second alternative procedures that can be preformed just by city staff and authorize city staff to approve the project and that is if they need certain optional standards that we will get into. We tidied up the demolition and this was somewhat of a touchy subject as we addressed this. Currently we have a provision in there about demolition within the downtown district and require a hearing before the board of zoning appeals. As we look at that, one thing that kept sticking with us in our gut was that if something did not seem right or seem appropriate that the board of zoning appeals that didn’t fall into their responsibility in defining our ordinance, so one thing we looked at is having a planning director or representative that review demolition requests and have the authority to approve those except where it is perceived that the property or building is of significance of the fabric of the community and the planning director would have a hearing before council to review that request. This is a map showing the new district locations and the new proposal, there are actually six districts now and there in a little different location that they were in and some are the same and some are different. The first district is centered around downtown. The second district is centered around the peripheral that extends out of downtown. The third district goes up and down Main Street . The fourth district looks at the peripheral of Main Street and looks at things like North and South Main Street as well as South Street . The fifth district looks at the Fairview Road area, not only includes Fairview Road but also includes Harrison Bridge Road and Grandview Drive . The sixth district centers around West Georgia Road and some of the streets that project off of West Georgia Road . Within this proposed ordinance there is some general design standards that would apply to all properties in the design overlay district. This is a list that the different standards get into, some of the different categories including building placement, orientation of the building, vehicular access and parking design, pedestrian access, landscaping and open space, architectural design, street space design and outdoor dining. In additions to general standards, in each district, there are some district specific standards that go into a little more detail with those general standards. In each district specific standards there are some that are required and some that are optional. In doing the ones that are optional enable the developer to obtain certain incentives. One of which, I already mentioned earlier in having a streamline review process. There’s other incentives, as parking as an example and a few others as well. But these district specific standards like I said go into greater detail of these general standards. Next I am prepared to do is go through quickly the different categories that I just introduced to you and identify what is trying to be achieved in those categories. First is building placement. As far as general standards go, we included minimum setbacks; we put in standards to allow fences to go in the front yard as long as they have an aesthetic component to that. Also there are previsions to request that the building is oriented to the street so it caters to pedestrians. For each district we get into more detail about establishing more setbacks along streets and blocks, establishing minimum setbacks from the right of way and as an optional standard introducing maximum set backs so you can keep a building close to the right of way so that it still does cater to pedestrians. This picture here is some of the examples right around the downtown area and I one thing I want to point out is that you can see in some areas that we have been fairly successful in establishing a common setback line that gives character and defines the area. Right here on Main Street on the west side, we’ve done a fairly good job with consistent set backs. We also have done the same along Curtis Street and those are the type of things that definition to an area and make is a pedestrian realm and somewhere that people enjoy to go. On the other hand here is a picture of a building placement along Grandview and Fairview Road, especially along Grandview Road there is not much consistency, we’ve got a few stores that are set back around 700 feet. Along Fairview Road we’ve done alright on the west side of the road and they are all fairly consistent about how they are set back but when you look at the east side of the road, you get into no standard about how they are placed. The next category was vehicular access and parking design. The general standard go into the criteria such as minimum separation between curb cuts and intersection and this is to promote safety so you don’t have too many points of conflicting traffic. We’ve encouraged inner parcel access so that people can get from one business to the other without having to pull onto the main road. We have standards for driveway widths so that we have means to people pulling into and out of businesses in a safe manner so they don’t impede on traffic and don’t have a greater risk of running over pedestrians. As you go into each district you go into greater detail on where the location of parking should be permitted such as the side or the rear and as an optional standard we have incentives for ones who provide their parking in the rear. Again looking at Grandview and Fairview Road, we look at some of the curb cuts and some places its not too bad if you look down towards Wal-Mart and Lowe’s, its not too bad with the curb cuts but once you get into other areas there is lot of curb cuts. There are some areas on Fairview Road that are close to each other and that can create a lot of conflicts where people are pulling out into traffic and making left hand turns into the businesses. It creates more danger for vehicles and pedestrians when you have a lot of curb cuts. The next category is pedestrian access and our general standards we require sidewalks with the ride of way and also that there are pedestrian sidewalks that connect that sidewalk to the building entrance. In each district we get into specific standards about how wide the sidewalks should be. In the landscaping and open space category we have various parking lot landscaping standards so that we promote having trees in parking lots. Also we have landscaping standards that include parking in the streets that builds off the current standards. We require one hundred percent ground cover and we have minimum tree sizes and size standards. Within each district we get into specific requirements about how much open space is required and in light of that we encourage neighboring properties coordinate their open spaces. Next category is architectural design. We have the general standards we encourage visually interesting roofs, minimum amount of fenestration along from façade. Encourage visually interesting facades, defined building entryways and permissible materials to be used in exterior finish. In each district we get into specifics about what kind of roofs that should be permitted. The next category is streetscape design and this builds up what we are trying to do downtown and all the things we are doing downtown. The general standards are encouraging pedestrian protection along the sidewalk and make sure there is matching grade between right of way and front of the property. In some districts we get into requirements for pedestrian lighting and one thing that we had in mind that would be really nice to continue the theme that we are continuing here in downtown with our lighting that we are putting in and carry that out in such places like up and down Main Street . As an option too, we will provide incentives of providing pedestrian amenities such as planters and benches and trash receptacles. We address outdoor display and dining in this article. We permitted some districts and there are different standards to where those are permitted as far as how outdoor display and dining should be done. One thing we defiantly agree on is that we promote within certain area, especially downtown, it would liven up those places. We address utility design from the standpoint of requiring screening of different mechanical and electrical equipment and also put application we put in strategies for the future we put new utility lines to be installed underground. LEED Certification is not required in this ordinance but we do provide incentives for any developer who does certify a LEED certifiable building that they automatically qualify no matter what district they are in for a streamlined review. Finally we have some generic standards about mixed-use developments and we encourage those in specific districts. Within those specific districts we have encouraged standards that pedestrian oriented uses be on the ground. And that professional offices and residential units be permitted to be right above ground floor. That concludes my presentation. I didn’t get into all of the specifics but I would be willing to get into them as we entertain questions or comments.
Mayor: Sounds like you’ve done a good job and I’m sure we will be reviewing that in great detail between now and next reading. So if no one has any questions, I will entertain a motion in this regard.
Mr. Hawes: There’s no need. This is just a workshop.
Mayor: I know this is a workshop but it….
Mr. Dyrhaug: But it says special voting session.
Mayor: And it’s got first reading on here.
Mr. Hawes: Well it means that the first reading is coming up in the next meeting.
Mr. Holmes: Your Interim City Clerk was on vacation so it was your part time fill in City Clerk.
Mr. Hawes: It is my reasoning that it was a workshop item in anticipation of first reading.
Mayor: Well just be thinking about it and we will get back together on this. Thanks a lot David.
Mr. Dyrhaug: Thanks
Mr. Curtis: Mr. Mayor
Mayor: Yes Mr. Curtis
Mr. Curtis: I make a motion that we amend the agenda to make it a workshop session only and not actually contain a special voting session.
Mayor: I don’t believe you can do that. But I’m anxious to hear more about that. Can you explain your motion? Or you just want to go on record of making a motion?
Mr. Curtis: It clearly says on the paperwork that was presented not only to us but to the public that this was not only a workshop but a special voting session also. If it is not a special voting session I want it to be on record that it is not.
Mayor: Well it’s going to be, the next item require a special voting session. I think we should say to the public that our staff is human and even though they are perfect in almost every way they occasionally make a mistake. Will that satisfy you?
Mr. Curtis: I withdraw my motion.
Mr. Hawes: Actually the next item will not have a motion on that. The intended special voting session is in case there were actions to be taken on the contractual matter regarding administration. There was an absolute need for a voting session before it was advertised as such.
Mayor: I don’t want to deny you to make a motion but I don’t think it’s appropriate to make a motion such as that.
Mr. Holmes: Mr. Mayor you do realize that you are supposed to have one workshop meeting and one voting meeting and this is a workshop meeting, while the Freedom of Information Act does not require us to advertise it as either or both. What we have tried to do is tell the public that their might be a vote, they might want to be here instead of when council takes action. Because of some of the items on the agenda we realized there might be potential to have a vote so I recommended to staff that they advertise it as both a workshop session and voting session just in case.
Mayor: Ok, so next item on this confusing agenda is, I assume that you Mr. Hawes are going to lead us down the road because it has to do with Budget.
Mr. Hawes: Yes sir. In order to facilitate a quality audit and an audit that is completed on time with the best information possible the City has in the past and continues to do this. The proposed budget amendment amends its budget prior to the compassion of the fiscal year that will better reflect what actually occurred in that fiscal year in regard to unseen and unbudgeted items. What we have had before was the 2007-2008 budget amendment. We have workshops here so we can discuss specifically what items require amending in the current budget. I am just going to rundown what you have before you. Basically this reflects the key changes in the operations of the city during this fiscal year. Primarily these changes and the most substantive changes in this amendment revolve around bond issuance that occurred during the fiscal year. Primary of which was the funding, special revenue fund and capital expenditures including amphitheater expenditures also refinance on the GO issue that occurred in the 2007, as a result of changes in state law, not entirely anticipated at the time that the budget was passed this put us in a better fiscal position for reporting and auditing purposes. So therefore we refinanced that debt which was used for capital purchases and the purchase of the Cultural Arts Center , the former elementary school. Also their final debt issue was the 2008 COPS, Certificates of Participation, and this was for the purchase of approximately 37 acres of land behind the amphitheater and assorted capital improvements. Those are the primary and substantive issues in the budgeted amendment as you have it before you. You will notice in certain line items that there is intro department approved amendments with regard to some shifts, especially in personnel expenses as a result of better information. We want to make sure we reflect what actually occurs so we can better plan next years budget from this. There were some operating expenses such as in Public Works, where some money was shifted from lesser used accounts, such as maintenance accounts that many not have had as much action in them because when talk about maintenance you do t know what is going to break down and what isn’t and we shifted some things from repair and maintenance equipment to repair and maintenance building and that just better reflects what occurred rather than having a overdrawn line item. That’s primarily what occurred over these amendments and I will be glad to take any questions. And this will be up for first reading at the next meeting, same time, first reading of the 2008-2009 budget will occur which is May 13 th of this year.
Mr. Bridges: You still have a couple more months to go in the year; you wanted to do this now?
Mr. Hawes: We wanted to do it concurrent and have it done at the end of the fiscal year and we only have two more voting sessions that are scheduled voting sessions and it takes two readings. So therefore in order to occur before the end of the fiscal year, we have to refer on that time frame.
Mayor: Ok, anyone else? Sounds like you explained it pretty well.
Mr. Hawes: I also want to remind you that we have a budget workshop meeting on Thursday of this week at 6:30.
Mayor: We all look for to that. Seriously, we all look forward to that. Thank you for that.
EXECUTIVE SESSION
It appears we have a need for an executive session to discuss a contractual matter related to administration. I’ll entertain a motion in that regard.
Mr. Garrett: I make a motion that we go into Executive Session to discuss a Contractual Matter in Administration.
Mayor: Thank you Mr. Garrett. Do I hear a second?
Ms. Bagwell: Second
Mayor: Ms. Bagwell seconds. Thank you Ms. Bagwell. All in favor signify with saying Aye (AYE) opposed no. Ayes have it it’s unanimous we are in recess in Executive Session. We are likely to be back based on the comments I’ve heard.
Mayor: Came out of Executive Session at 8:10 no action taken. I will entertain a motion.
ADJOURNMENT
Ms. Sanders: I move we adjourn this meeting
Mayor: Do I hear a second?
Ms. Bagwell: Second
Mayor: All those in favor signify by saying Aye (AYE) opposed No. Aye’s have it, we are adjourned.
Respectfully Submitted,
Cathy Bridgeman Interim City Clerk
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